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Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

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Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#681

Post by gonzo41 »

kbelder wrote: post #481
holoduke wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say the Ukrainians in cooperation with their biggest friends: the Polish government. It's in no interest for the Russians to destroy their own pipeline. They could as well just shut down the supply. I don't wanna speak to negative about Ukraine. But don't forget that the country belongs to the most corrupt and dirty countries in Europe. The state is controlled by oligarchs. In fact the Oligarchs brought the Z…

In my mind, the Ukrainians are the only party who could blow the pipelines without being dirty. It's a strategic asset of a country they're in an active war with.

Yeah, but Ukraine requires a working relationships with the west and europe to sustain it's war. Whilst Ukraine is going to benefit from this, this sort of damage is too great for them to engage with as a primary actor.

Imagine if they did take credit for this, Russia could respond with nukes or chemical weapons. It could also bite them that deep in the cold of winter, when everyone is wearing coats in doors for months, that the Germans start to resent sending military equipment to Ukraine.

This act will put pressure on Ukraine. Also not super great for the environment. as well. Another often overlooked victim.

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#683

Post by type0 »

type0 wrote: post #561
phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes zero sense to me. What does Russia get by destroying their own pipeline? If they wanted to shutoff gas, thats just a turn of a valve. Russia looses massive leverage by no longer being able to deliver gas, even if they wanted to. Prior to this, if the public got cold enough, they could tell their government "forget Ukraine, we need gas. Go agree to get it or we will vote you out ASAP". Now.... There's no po…

> This makes zero sense to me. What does Russia get by destroying their own pipeline? 1. To do the repair EU needs to lift sanctions 2. Gas prices spiked = short term monetary gain 3. Not so subtle message: hey Norway-Poland nice pipeline you opened here today, you should hope that nothing bad can happen to it.

4. Gazprom needs to pay financial penalties to companies that signed contracts with them because they have stopped supplying gas, now they can claim force major situation and extend this indefinitely due to lengthy trials

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#684

Post by henearkr »

ShivShankaran wrote: post #452
Kukumber wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian bots? https://www.thelocal.dk/20220407/danish-pm-rebuts-russian-am... https://www.dvidshub.net/news/422733/us-military-makes-histo... Who are they? are they russian by identity, american by faith? US military was there, in the baltic sea

Absolutely anything that is neutral or requesting for peace or mentioning any of US activities is met with "Putin Bot" , "Kremlin Bot", "Russian Bot" accusations including xenophobic slurs of "what I think of Modi". It's insane requesting for any civil conversation in this environment. Like bruh, my name is from Trinidad. Entirely different continent from India/Asia.

Also how do you dare been "neutral" in front of this war??

So this means you have found potential justifications for crimes against Humanity?

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#685

Post by trasz »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #676
trasz wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d be _immensely_ proud if it was Poland.

What is there to be proud of? Some kind of weird payback for being kicked out of the Deutsche Bahn first class?

Because it resolves a major strategic problem for European security - that of Germany being blackmailed by Russia. At the same time it doesn’t really have any drawbacks aside from (probably minor) pollution. In particular it’s not a problem for Germany, because both pipelines were unused.

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#686

Post by webshit2 »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #625
trasz wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Freezing to death” is just Putin’s propaganda; even before war Russian gas was about 30% of imports, now it’s no longer necessary at all: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-27/europe-is...

So, why are the politicians telling people not to heat their houses above 19°C, to wear sweaters at home, to limit showers to a few minutes and why are eg. steel mills already shutting down in germany?

Yeah, if a country doesn't have enough gas to keep everyone's house at a comfy 35C, that's like basically the same as everyone freezing to death

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#687

Post by some0x80070005 »

bradgessler wrote: post #579
some0x80070005 wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Due to the special inside coating to reduce friction, seawater ingress would mean the abandonment of the pipeline. It’s just not possible to fix the line without just replacing the entire thing. I theorize it’s possible to run at severely reduced flow rates if they were able to get the water out, but that seems unlikely since the receiving facilities are not designed to handle the tremendous amount of water that woul…

So the pipeline is effectively destroyed. That’s kind of insane.

You are not wrong. It’s a feat of engineering to have a roughly 1200 km pipeline operate smoothly with no safety or reliability issues over 10 years just to get blown up. Billions of dollars just down the drain.

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#688

Post by some0x80070005 »

driggs wrote: post #518

Does anyone know the rate at which these leaks are spewing methane into the atmosphere, and how quickly this pipeline can be shut off (if it isn't already)?

I’ve heard somewhere between 300-400 kilograms gas per second. The pipeline has already been shut off for weeks, but it’ll take days for all the gas that’s already in the line at elevated pressures to leak out. It’s an enormous amount of gas.

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#689

Post by rad_gruchalski »

toss1 wrote: post #102
wongarsu wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sabotage makes sense, but by whom? Surely Russia has no interest in sabotaging the pipelines that give them leverage over Europe. Without the pipelines, the whole "you lift the sanctions, we deliver natural gas" game is gone. Even if unlikely to happen, it would have been an important psychological and political factor over the winter. Meanwhile European powers don't seem to have an incentive. They would benefit from…

Russia has a motivation to kill the pipelines now, to increase gas prices now, as NS1 & NS2 are NOT the only paths to get gas to the EU. Since they are already down for "maintenance" (and we actually know some maintenance is needed), it would be a good tactical move to kill the possibility of NS1 & NS2 delivering gas, increase focus on the crisis now, and hope that this scares the EU into stopping supporting Ukraine.…

> and hope that this scares the EU into stopping supporting Ukraine

This absolutely doesn’t make sense. If the pipeline is gone, EU does not have any incentive to settle with Russia. Like, “whatever”, no pipe, we send tanks to Ukraine because you have nothing to offer to us anymore.

Re: Gas Leak in the Baltic Sea

#690

Post by detritus »

cm2187 wrote: post #562
detritus wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason I could imagine Russia herself would do this is because they might assume Nordstream is now an essentially obsolete asset, so has more value in their ability to demonstrate the fragility of OTHER gas pipelines, including the one inaugurated this very day between Norway and Poland. ed: https://twitter.com/ASabadus/status/1574729027570769920 Also, Apparently Norway has recently warned about drone activity ne…

Everyone knows they have the capability to do it. What prevents them from doing this is that if they do it, NATO will start sinking russian submarine in the north and baltic seas and we are in a shooting war. So I really don't see the point.

We know they are lying. They know they are lying. They know that we know they are lying. We know that they know that we know they are lying. And still they continue to lie.
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