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Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

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Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#111

Post by osigurdson »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #57
negamax wrote: post #50

Unpopular opinion with some truth in it. Many of the SWEs and other product people in these companies left at the peak of pandemic due to burnout, but mostly due to cheap money. Many senior leaders cashed out their stock and went into the sunset. Companies responded with mass hiring as money was everywhere. They grossly underestimated the complexity of running an engineering org and now the bill is due. I think until…

Most Canadian companies don't want to pay the salaries to have the "old guard." I suspect a lot of people left during COVID not just because they were burnt out but because they could get better pay working remotely for US companies. They better hope we end up in a deep recession, because they're not fit to compete for talent when there's employers out there hiring remote at competitive rates.

The typical Canadian company is probably not worried about it as they believe they will be able to find offshore workers, use Fiverr to fill the gap, etc.

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#113

Post by chii »

tobyjsullivan wrote: post #80
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Hey, this is a crazy gamble and it might not work out. Sign here to play." That's a gross mischaracterization, and it weakens your argument. It wasn't a "crazy gamble." It was a calculated risk, one that I think even in hindsight looks like a reasonable one to make at the time. I think the overall question is whether it would have been better for those jobs never to have existed in the first place , rather than ha…

I don't agree that's a gross mischaracterization. For reference, the exact wording from Tobi Lutke is: > Was this surge to be a temporary effect or a new normal? And so, given what we saw, we placed another bet: We bet that the channel mix - the share of dollars that travel through ecommerce rather than physical retail - would permanently leap ahead by 5 or even 10 years. In other words, it was a gamble that an unpre…

> Other people's financial security is basically free for Shopify

it is the assume responsibility of the individual for their own financial security. If the bet that shopify made turned out to be great, those people that got hired wouldn't have a complaint about how much they've gained.

It's always a risk to move jobs, and even more risk to move to a growing company. People who do so would've implicitly accepted the risk - it's not on shopify to spell it out for them.

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#114

Post by b112 »

sbarre wrote: post #7

This part at the end of the article is probably the real true nugget in here: > But implicit in that risk, Mr. Nayyar points out, is a lot of downside. Many executives thought, “but didn’t say out loud, that if demand disappeared or changed course – sometimes even slightly changed course – those people we brought on, it might not make sense to have them around any more. … You’re just a number on the page; whatever ha…

That and be prepared for layoffs. Have a couple of months of runway put aside somewhere and don't touch it.

This is really the only solution. Really, outside of very apparent issues with a company, no one has job security. It is an illusion.

You must behave, financially, as if tomorrow is your last day at work.

Because I think these cycles of boom-then-bust for growth are only going to get more frequent.

People have been saying this for decades. If true, I think it is derived from a faster news cycle more than anything.

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#115

Post by b112 »

tobyjsullivan wrote: post #80
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Hey, this is a crazy gamble and it might not work out. Sign here to play." That's a gross mischaracterization, and it weakens your argument. It wasn't a "crazy gamble." It was a calculated risk, one that I think even in hindsight looks like a reasonable one to make at the time. I think the overall question is whether it would have been better for those jobs never to have existed in the first place , rather than ha…

I don't agree that's a gross mischaracterization. For reference, the exact wording from Tobi Lutke is: > Was this surge to be a temporary effect or a new normal? And so, given what we saw, we placed another bet: We bet that the channel mix - the share of dollars that travel through ecommerce rather than physical retail - would permanently leap ahead by 5 or even 10 years. In other words, it was a gamble that an unpre…

Were the chances still extremely small? Also, absolutely.

This is an extreme case of hindsight. You can only say so, definitively, looking back.

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#116

Post by b112 »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #106
mabbo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Shopify, hired like mad during the pandemic boom knowing full-well that they would end up laying off a bunch of those new hires once things got "normal" again. You should read Tobi's post about what happened. That's not how it was. https://news.shopify.com/changes-to-shopifys-team# > Before the pandemic, ecommerce growth had been steady and predictable. Was this surge to be a temporary effect or a new normal? And s…

All sorts of things are breaking due to major miscalculations during the pandemic. I have friends who work in the fashion industry and they're all worried about muted sales. NOT because of demand, but because they made some serious miscalculations about the kind of clothes people would want in 2022. So many of them went heavy on "comfort wear", thinking that somehow everyone will still be working from home and that g…

And thus, again, the fashion industry colludes to do evil, teams up with bioterrorists, and releases a new virus, creates a new pandemic, so that their warehouses may empty.

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#117

Post by jeromegv »

joshlemer wrote: post #102
walrus01 wrote: post #95

Canadian tech startups are hilarious . The domestic media likes to play up Hootsuite in Vancouver like it's a big deal. Maybe in the context of Vancouver's size of tech job market... But it's absolutely nothing compared to what exists in Seattle or anywhere in California or places in NY, Texas, etc. The unfortunate lesson that every Canadian working in the tech field will learn is that if you're really talented and e…

Honestly fuck Canadian tech companies. The pay is literally half or even a third of what we can earn in the states. The rise of remote work has been such an amazing development for Canadian software developer. Really there isn’t much point in living in a Canadian tech city like Vancouver or Toronto since it makes no sense to work for a Canadian company anymore. Even taking a remote job at any run of the mill non flas…

Some of us enjoy the culture, food and network of living in a large city. There’s a whole world in what your day to day is between living in the 3rd biggest city in US-Canada and living in Winnipeg. Both are fine, but they are different, not interchangeable

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#118

Post by yrgulation »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #45

I interviewed at a startup once in Canada. They offered 40K per year (Canadian) and asked late working hours right in the interview process. No thanks...

Few years before the pandemic i researched moving to canada from the uk. I was shocked at how low tech pay was. Basically it was lower than in some east european countries for my level of experience. The way i see it, canada will follow the path denmark went after the 2008 crash. The software tech sector all but vanished and has not recovered since.

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#119

Post by Mikeb85 »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #46
Mikeb85 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like many other things affecting western countries though, it's worse in Canada since we have lower investment rates, spend less on R&D, have an ultra-risk averse culture, extremely high costs, etc...

> lower investment rates, spend less on R&D, have an ultra-risk averse culture Why do those make it worse? Lower investment rates means less money to lose, R&D is often trimmed first, and investment should go to lower risk in this kind of environment. And costs shouldn't be much higher than USA. I think the problem is actually the opposite. People say the US is willing to take risks which is why their tech and startu…

Higher investment rate means when prices go down/a recession happens, people invest in new businesses which means a recovery happens quicker and is more robust.

Just look at Canada's GDP per capita over time versus the US'. Or the fact our only job growth since the pandemic started has been in government jobs. Our private sector is dying because it's more profitable to simply move money to the US or to put it all into unproductive real estate.

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#120

Post by kazinator »

When are there not layoffs in startups?

Startups are a crapshoot; not a sure thing. Startups sputter and fail in the best of times and worst of times.

You can go through 30 years of career doing nothing but hopping from one failed startup to another, which can span a bubble or two and a couple of recessions.

Software? Most software ever written has been a commercial flop. Not a single customer.

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