Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

theglobeandmail.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 183 posts

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#51

Post by pluc »

fruit2020 wrote: post #13
pluc wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take getting shafted over working in crypto any day of the week

Because of the morals, the risks, or the pressure?

The people - the intersection of finance and tech attracts some of the most spectacular international-level pro scumbags I've had the misfortune to meet. Then there's about 5% of everyone in the entire space that understands the technology, the rest are just bullshit peddlers along for the ride who can smell a quick buck and an industry ripe for abuse because so few understand what it actually is.

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#52

Post by sbarre »

mabbo wrote: post #47
sbarre wrote: post #7

This part at the end of the article is probably the real true nugget in here: > But implicit in that risk, Mr. Nayyar points out, is a lot of downside. Many executives thought, “but didn’t say out loud, that if demand disappeared or changed course – sometimes even slightly changed course – those people we brought on, it might not make sense to have them around any more. … You’re just a number on the page; whatever ha…

> Shopify, hired like mad during the pandemic boom knowing full-well that they would end up laying off a bunch of those new hires once things got "normal" again. You should read Tobi's post about what happened. That's not how it was. https://news.shopify.com/changes-to-shopifys-team# > Before the pandemic, ecommerce growth had been steady and predictable. Was this surge to be a temporary effect or a new normal? And s…

> You should read Tobi's post about what happened. That's not how it was.

I did read that back when it was posted. I hope you recognize PR when you see it?

Sorry if it came across like I was saying that companies are being evil or bad or vain about how they're hiring. Quite the opposite, and more dangerously, I think companies see nothing wrong with the boom-then-bust approach to hiring, and that it's going to happen more.

And so my point here is that employees need to re-think how they look at job security in high-growth companies, and assume that they might be getting hired as part of a "bet" and not as part of a long-term strategy where the company has allocated the money to keep you around, like a lot of people assume when they take a full-time job (vs. a contract).

Plenty of larger tech companies that did layoffs, Shopify included, were never in any real financial trouble. They just made bets that didn't pay off, and so they corrected and moved on.

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#53

Post by tobyjsullivan »

mabbo wrote: post #47
sbarre wrote: post #7

This part at the end of the article is probably the real true nugget in here: > But implicit in that risk, Mr. Nayyar points out, is a lot of downside. Many executives thought, “but didn’t say out loud, that if demand disappeared or changed course – sometimes even slightly changed course – those people we brought on, it might not make sense to have them around any more. … You’re just a number on the page; whatever ha…

> Shopify, hired like mad during the pandemic boom knowing full-well that they would end up laying off a bunch of those new hires once things got "normal" again. You should read Tobi's post about what happened. That's not how it was. https://news.shopify.com/changes-to-shopifys-team# > Before the pandemic, ecommerce growth had been steady and predictable. Was this surge to be a temporary effect or a new normal? And s…

> If the bet had paid off…

There’s the rub. The parent’s suggestion was that, probably, the new hires weren’t told anything along the lines of “Hey, this is a crazy gamble and it might not work out. Sign here to play.”

Yes, it’s implied in “startups”. But companies as large as shopify aren’t generally hiring people from the startup scene anymore. People are (were?) leaving good, stable jobs to go there. Only they know what their expectations were.

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#54

Post by sbarre »

valzam wrote: post #34
sbarre wrote: post #7

This part at the end of the article is probably the real true nugget in here: > But implicit in that risk, Mr. Nayyar points out, is a lot of downside. Many executives thought, “but didn’t say out loud, that if demand disappeared or changed course – sometimes even slightly changed course – those people we brought on, it might not make sense to have them around any more. … You’re just a number on the page; whatever ha…

What I don't understand about this: What's the point of bringing on so many engineers with the expectation of firing many of them? It takes time to get productive and especially when you hire lots of engineers they will probably work on new projects. Spending a lot of money on an engineer and then firing them before they start to really produce value is very odd...

In large companies, don't assume that there is a coherent and unified vision on hiring or growth.

Different managers/directors/VPs have their own portfolios, their own budgets, their own roadmaps and KPIs. This leads to duplication, inefficiencies, and more.. But tech companies make so much money that in most cases this is accepted as cost of doing business - up to a point.

Also in some places, if you don't hire for your headcount, it becomes harder to get it back later when you truly need it..

There is a ton of organizational dysfunction like that in very larger companies (thousands of employees or more), even in the "best" companies that HN likes to fawn over.

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#55

Post by sbarre »

ffggvv wrote: post #31
sbarre wrote: post #7

This part at the end of the article is probably the real true nugget in here: > But implicit in that risk, Mr. Nayyar points out, is a lot of downside. Many executives thought, “but didn’t say out loud, that if demand disappeared or changed course – sometimes even slightly changed course – those people we brought on, it might not make sense to have them around any more. … You’re just a number on the page; whatever ha…

> A lesson to be learned for anyone taking a job in a fast-growing company is to really think about the value that your specific job brings to the company. Imo the issue usually is that interesting and value bringing work are usually not in alignment at these companies. most companies i’ve worked at, no one wanted to work on ads and found them boring even though they brought in all the revenue. everyone wanted to wor…

You're absolutely right, and it's worth thinking this through even before you take a job, if you have that luxury.

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#56

Post by [deleted] »

Gene_Parmesan wrote: post #48
cardy31 wrote: post #21

Calling Shopify a Canadian Tech Startup is really getting old. At 10k+ employees the term “startup” should really stop being applied to it. It is really big, and many of its execs are from huge American banks. So even “Canadian” may soon cease to be a valid label for it.

As a non-SVer, this has always been something that confused me. What is the actual definition for "startup"? It doesn't seem to be tied to age, funding level, employee counts, user counts, revenues, or really anything else at all. Honestly, it seems like a mostly self-selected tag used to indicate culture -- e.g., expectations of working conditions (hours, for instance) that in "normal" business we have long ago real…

[deleted]

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#57

Post by cmrdporcupine »

negamax wrote: post #50

Unpopular opinion with some truth in it. Many of the SWEs and other product people in these companies left at the peak of pandemic due to burnout, but mostly due to cheap money. Many senior leaders cashed out their stock and went into the sunset. Companies responded with mass hiring as money was everywhere. They grossly underestimated the complexity of running an engineering org and now the bill is due. I think until…

Most Canadian companies don't want to pay the salaries to have the "old guard." I suspect a lot of people left during COVID not just because they were burnt out but because they could get better pay working remotely for US companies.

They better hope we end up in a deep recession, because they're not fit to compete for talent when there's employers out there hiring remote at competitive rates.

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#58

Post by dv_dt »

sbarre wrote: post #54
valzam wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't understand about this: What's the point of bringing on so many engineers with the expectation of firing many of them? It takes time to get productive and especially when you hire lots of engineers they will probably work on new projects. Spending a lot of money on an engineer and then firing them before they start to really produce value is very odd...

In large companies, don't assume that there is a coherent and unified vision on hiring or growth. Different managers/directors/VPs have their own portfolios, their own budgets, their own roadmaps and KPIs. This leads to duplication, inefficiencies, and more.. But tech companies make so much money that in most cases this is accepted as cost of doing business - up to a point. Also in some places, if you don't hire for…

Execs should also get held responsible for some churndex number because that ultimately reflects on how good the execution is in a way that cash flow deltas alone does not reflect.

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#59

Post by MonkeyMalarky »

mardifoufs wrote: post #43
3qz wrote: post #8

A “startup” in Canada is just a dozen guys who stay afloat by chasing $50k government grants full time. It’s very good when these go out of business

Only $50k grants? You must have missed the AI startup wave here in Montreal. They didn't end up producing much, if anything, of value. But they sure knew how to scale those grants/"government investments" to a completely new level.

I would've thought the whole Element AI debacle would've reined that in but I guess not? If the patron saint of DL can't keep a startup with 100M invested in it going, I don't even know what left, right, up and down are anymore.

Re: Layoffs at Canadian tech startups

#60

Post by MonkeyMalarky »

mikrl wrote: post #33
3qz wrote: post #8

A “startup” in Canada is just a dozen guys who stay afloat by chasing $50k government grants full time. It’s very good when these go out of business

Once I looked into SRED and connected the dots, whenever I heard hypercapitalist talk at work I’d have to bite my tongue.

SR&ED is just a nice-to-have break on taxes, no?
Post reply on HN