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Tradition is Smarter (2018)

scholars-stage.org

51–60 of 174 posts

Re: Tradition is Smarter (2018)

#51
post #2

Well, let's go back to worshipping the sun, then. Who knows, if we don't, it might not rise tomorrow... Or, just maybe, progress itself is a tradition that deserves its own reverence. Sometimes, Chesterson's fence was erected by a shepherd who no longer uses the field that you'd rather play soccer on. It was useful in its day, but no longer.

You most likely did not descend from people who worshipped the sun, just people who used the sun in art and recognized its benefits to them. There were deities associated with the sun. Sol Invictus is the most commonly known, but was a relatively late addition to the Roman pantheon, intentionally appropriated from traditions from Syria and elevated by the empire for what they perceived to be civic benefit. Hardly tra…

The idea of Sol as a Syrian god has been challenged recently:

It was long thought that Sol Invictus was a Syrian sun-god, and that Aurelian imported his cult into Rome after he had vanquished Zenobia and captured Palmyra. This sun-god, it was postulated, differed fundamentally from the old Roman sungod Sol Indiges, whose cult had long since disappeared from Rome. Scholars thus tended to postulate a hiatus in the first centuries of imperial rule during which there was little or no cult of the sun in Rome. Recent studies, however, have shown that Aurelian’s Sol Invictus was neither new nor foreign, and that the cult of the sun was maintained in Rome without interruption from the city’s earliest history until the demise of Roman religion(s). This continuity of the Roman cult of Sol sheds a new light on the evidence for priests and temples of Sol in Rome.

http://romanrepublic.org/roma/wp-content/uploads/attachments...

Re: Tradition is Smarter (2018)

#52
post #15

Chesterson's fence is about understanding: tradition may be smarter than you, maybe not, but it would serve well to understand the reasons why it's a tradition before disposing with it.

well and good. the issue I have is that when no one can be found that knows anything about why it was put there in the first place. every day I have to climb over that damn fence to get groceries. at what point do we tear it down to see what happens? in software, I would rather tear it down and find out what it was there for. most developers I've worked with in the past couple decades operate in an atmosphere of cons…

When you remove something from the software you are improving your understanding of it. I don't see how this example adds to your argument.

Re: Tradition is Smarter (2018)

#53
post #29
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask for links to the research that shows this? Not arguing, just curious.

Pick up any book on Quantum Mechanics.

Using this as an example of "tradition being wrong" in the context of the linked article is literally peak autism on top of the fact that our "common sense" understanding of physical processes being wrong (is it even wrong at the level of abstraction we work on?) says nothing about our understanding of social phenomena.

Re: Tradition is Smarter (2018)

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well and good. the issue I have is that when no one can be found that knows anything about why it was put there in the first place. every day I have to climb over that damn fence to get groceries. at what point do we tear it down to see what happens? in software, I would rather tear it down and find out what it was there for. most developers I've worked with in the past couple decades operate in an atmosphere of cons…

When you remove something from the software you are improving your understanding of it. I don't see how this example adds to your argument.

i'm sorry I was unclear. yes - I strongly recommend removing the fence and seeing what happens. climbing over it every day and giving it a glare just leaves you in the dark.

Re: Tradition is Smarter (2018)

#55
post #45

What about circumcision? Is it all about forming group bonds?

Not being circumcised meaningfully increases the odds of transmitting and contracting certain diseases, by around 50%ish (though reduces some, interestingly enough) [ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2907642/ ] and increases the risk of UTIs significantly (by about 75%, albeit still not super common). [ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6119846/ ] Consider a world without antibiotics, and a UTI…

>Consider a world without antibiotics

In a world without antibiotics I’d rather not want anyone getting within 10 feet of my son’s penis with an unsterilized blade, thank you. Not to mention the whole “direct oral suctioning” tradition of some religious groups [1], which sounds like a recipe for spreading herpes and other goodies.

[1] https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/health/health-topics/safe-bris...

Re: Tradition is Smarter (2018)

#56
post #15

Chesterson's fence is about understanding: tradition may be smarter than you, maybe not, but it would serve well to understand the reasons why it's a tradition before disposing with it.

And you can just as well use it to vouch for change. If you don't understand why a change is being pushed for, maybe try to understand it first before trying to tear it down so therefore 'change is smarter'. Hopefully that now makes clear the ignorance and clickbaitiness of the title. Pretentious titles and articles never fail to show their faces on the daily here.

Re: Tradition is Smarter (2018)

#57

Rarely have I had such a negative reaction to a blog post, for 2 main reasons: 1. The author seems to "mysticize" tradition, basically taking the approach "sometimes you just have to take things on faith". Which I think is complete nonsense. If you look at the traditions that "work", like the manioc processing given in the article, this is basically just the scientific method at work, but where we've lost the documen…

To your point, assuming you're a Westerner, I quote you:

"female circumcision wouldn't be questioned as the mutilation that it is"

Maybe your traditions are blinding you to the fact that male circumcision falls in the same category.

I agree with the sentiment though, and the italicized part of your comment is quite an elegant way to put it.

Re: Tradition is Smarter (2018)

#58
post #2

Well, let's go back to worshipping the sun, then. Who knows, if we don't, it might not rise tomorrow... Or, just maybe, progress itself is a tradition that deserves its own reverence. Sometimes, Chesterson's fence was erected by a shepherd who no longer uses the field that you'd rather play soccer on. It was useful in its day, but no longer.

You most likely did not descend from people who worshipped the sun, just people who used the sun in art and recognized its benefits to them. There were deities associated with the sun. Sol Invictus is the most commonly known, but was a relatively late addition to the Roman pantheon, intentionally appropriated from traditions from Syria and elevated by the empire for what they perceived to be civic benefit. Hardly tra…

> You most likely did not descend from people who worshipped the sun, just people who used the sun in art and recognized its benefits to them.

a. You don't know my parents, don't be so sure.

b. You're right, I should have gone with "washing hands before surgery" to avoid these low-effort rebuttals.

Re: Tradition is Smarter (2018)

#59
post #57

Rarely have I had such a negative reaction to a blog post, for 2 main reasons: 1. The author seems to "mysticize" tradition, basically taking the approach "sometimes you just have to take things on faith". Which I think is complete nonsense. If you look at the traditions that "work", like the manioc processing given in the article, this is basically just the scientific method at work, but where we've lost the documen…

To your point, assuming you're a Westerner, I quote you: "female circumcision wouldn't be questioned as the mutilation that it is" Maybe your traditions are blinding you to the fact that male circumcision falls in the same category. I agree with the sentiment though, and the italicized part of your comment is quite an elegant way to put it.

[deleted]

Re: Tradition is Smarter (2018)

#60

Rarely have I had such a negative reaction to a blog post, for 2 main reasons: 1. The author seems to "mysticize" tradition, basically taking the approach "sometimes you just have to take things on faith". Which I think is complete nonsense. If you look at the traditions that "work", like the manioc processing given in the article, this is basically just the scientific method at work, but where we've lost the documen…

[deleted]
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