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Aging programmer

world.hey.com

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Re: Aging programmer

#111

Post by RockingGoodNite »

drstewart wrote: post #86
vsareto wrote: post #11

>I never understood why some people despise the term full-stack. More for the role: full-stack has you doing multiple roles, but is not compensated as such. You're even removing the communication overhead if the role had been split in two. It seems to me as a business move to compress roles and pay you less for double the capability in exchange for varied work. I don't think people should just accept lower comp just…

So do you feel the same way about backend developers who use databases? Surely that's two roles: server developer and database developer? Of course, they can't test their own code manually. That's two roles: developer and QA! So a backend developer is at least 3 roles of work. Are you making 3x the salary you should be?

It's a commonly accepted view that backend developers know databases. Until it is fixed, there are two major realms now due to Google (Angular) and Microsoft (TypeScript), backend and frontend. I was once a full stack developer but refuse to touch Angular gargabe or TypeShit.

Re: Aging programmer

#112

Post by betaby »

Sad reading. Meanwhile anyone with a title above of the middle manager is collecting big moneys and asking for an 'update'. I would take a management role any second, no need to explain how bad it could be.

Re: Aging programmer

#113

Post by BlargMcLarg »

samatman wrote: post #103

Donald Knuth was 40 years old when he published the first version of TeX. We could make a long list like this. Enormous amounts of high-quality, game-changing software is written by coders in their 40s and 50s, often with a couple more decades of stewardship and expansion of their works.

Isn't unique to programming either. Loads of famous people produced something well known today in their later years. Many of which didn't start picking up the required skills before their late 20s, 30s, etc. Many works which in many ways, were far more difficult than programming is today.

It's primarily navigating social environments which makes software production so obscenely difficult. There's nothing inherently complex about most popular web apps once you have access to the frameworks used to make the tough parts easier. No amount of frameworks or technical knowledge is going to solve stakeholders with conflicting interests, or coworkers heavily in favor of slowing things down through unnecessary red tape.

Re: Aging programmer

#114

Post by dc-programmer »

tartoran wrote: post #48
therealdokks wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmm as a 53 year old programmer I've had the exact opposite experience. Because of the large diversity of my skills I have more offers for work than ever before.

You’re the odd one out, perhaps due to your own abilities and other special qualities. For the average programmer ageism applies though. And the largest majority of devs is in the average region

Are there any studies on the phenomenon? I like reading peoples stories but at the same time I’d be interested in seeing the data

Re: Aging programmer

#115

Post by RockingGoodNite »

mathgeek wrote: post #8

We all benefit from a world where productive developers are applauded for choosing between parallel tracks as ICs and managers.

Productive developers don't necessarily make good managers. Been doing this stuff for a long time and never came across the acronym IC, what is it?

Re: Aging programmer

#116

Post by indymike »

RockingGoodNite wrote: post #81
thread_id wrote: post #69

At 64 years I am still going strong. I consider myself blessed that I have landed a position that allows the to be the leader (I manage a small team) and still be hands on with everything: Architecture, desgin, coding, infrastructure, cloud engineering, DevOps engineer, DBA, the list goes on. It is a Goldilocks job. The technologies that we manage and master are miriad. We are a small company and my team owns the ent…

People who can manage and code (architect, etc.) are truly rare. I'm not quite at the same age and only play the guitar. Like the article author and where we differ, I am very skeptical of new technologies, if I can't find a use for it in my personal software projects without having to hold my nose, there's no way I will recommend it for work.

> People who can manage and code (architect, etc.) are truly rare.

I disagree with this. I think there are a lot of people who don't like being a leader for lots of reasons... but every time I've promoted a reluctant leader it's been magical for that person and for their team. A lot of times the people that self-promote and like to be in charge should never, ever be given athority.

> I am very skeptical of new technologies

I used to think that way until I realized that in a lot of cases, we've been re-inventing the same concepts in computing since the 1960s. I think a lot of the re-invention is really being driven by hardware capabilities, languages and fashion. We're seeing it with Rust right now - let's rewrite all the things in Rust! Underneath it all, though, the payoff for using new, less capable tech, is that eventually it will pass up the old in a very meaningful way - and when it does, systems build on the old are washed away.

Re: Aging programmer

#117

Post by travisgriggs »

indymike wrote: post #104

I'm just over 50. Here's ultimately what I think about aging and programming: Programming is fun. I enjoy it now, more than I ever have. Three times I've created software that has built a business and livelihood for others. That is super satisfying, and at the same time, usually the source of things that are not as fun as programming (taxes, accounting, lawyers, nasty people). When I run across other programmers my a…

Wow. Just turned 52. Love coding. Love building useful/meaningful things.

Your three paragraphs read like someone climbed inside the library of my head and just started reading all the thoughts there at once. I struggle or have struggled with all 3 of those. Especially the latter 2.

Re: Aging programmer

#118

Post by LostInTheWoods »

almost_usual wrote: post #57

> I don't enjoy switching contexts. My perfect agenda is composed of a single meaty task I can focus on for days. So large companies only?

I work for a large company, and I can say that context switching is also a problem here. I guess it comes down to the organization, or maybe the individual team. But yeah, there isn't a week that goes by where a development task isn't interrupted by something.

Re: Aging programmer

#119

Post by galaxyLogic »

indymike wrote: post #104

I'm just over 50. Here's ultimately what I think about aging and programming: Programming is fun. I enjoy it now, more than I ever have. Three times I've created software that has built a business and livelihood for others. That is super satisfying, and at the same time, usually the source of things that are not as fun as programming (taxes, accounting, lawyers, nasty people). When I run across other programmers my a…

Programming fun because you find SOLUTIONS all the time. You find better ways of doing things. That is the nature of it because there is no need to write the same code twice.

Re: Aging programmer

#120

Post by RockingGoodNite »

pelasaco wrote: post #53

I couldn't agree more with this post. - Nope, I don't want spend my week doing 1:1 with a team. - 40 years old and I was never so sharp as developer as now. Focused. Precise. Fearless. - Being the most senior developer in my team, doesn't put me in any special position other than I deliver a lot of good code, I do a lot of devops tasks, i review a lot of PR and people hear me. - I can scale my work through my peers.…

I could earn probably double, maybe even triple my salary and then I read your comment and realized it's true. If my salary now were halved, it'd still be more than the average US income earner. I Googled "US population average salary" and they have a nice graph.

As a side note, get ready for the pitch forks, it started going up as we approached the then potential Trump era in 2016.

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