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Ask HN: Strategies to land remote US job while living in living in EU?

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Re: Ask HN: Strategies to land remote US job while living in living in EU?

#31

Post by csmpltn »

meheleventyone wrote: post #24
bitL wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not illegal. An EU person needs a legal entity in the EU (it can be either freelancer or a company) and then it's just usual B2B relationship where EU person pays their taxes, insurances etc. in the EU. US company still saves, i.e. instead of paying 200k to a fresh graduate they can pay it to a senior dev in the EU.

The illegal bit isn’t the pay structure but the treatment of a contractor as an employee. Both the European and US laws make this distinction with similar criteria. This is to make sure companies aren’t avoiding their obligations to employees. And just from a moral perspective if you’re expecting someone to act like an employee you should treat them in kind.

> "The illegal bit isn’t the pay structure but the treatment of a contractor as an employee."

What's illegal here exactly?

1. US Business Entity conducts business with EU Business Entity.

2. The person (let's call them a contractor) is employed as a full-time employee for the EU Business Entity. They also function as the owner of the EU Business Entity.

3. US Business Entity, EU Business Entity and the contractor - all pay their respective taxes as required by the laws in their jurisdictions.

This is the very foundation of how consultancies operate, for example:

1. The consultancy is the employer, the consultant the employee.

2. The consultant gets hired out to different clients, to work on different projects.

3. The consultant's salary gets paid by the consultancy, not the client.

4. The client only ever conducts business with the consultancy.

Re: Ask HN: Strategies to land remote US job while living in living in EU?

#32

Post by krzyk »

Semaphor wrote: post #21
sarchertech wrote: post #12

Many US companies hiring people from Europe are treating them as de facto employees but paying them as contractors. This is illegal. It’s not something that the US government has been regularly enforcing. But if the trend continues and ends up on the public’s radar, that will change.

It is probably doubly illegal. Not just in the US, but also in the country you live in. I don’t know for sure outside Germany, but I assume it’s similar: If you mainly live in Germany, you have to be hired according to German labor law (and pay taxes etc. in Germany)

Same in Poland. But this doesn't stop a lot, and I mean a lot companies from doing that.

Re: Ask HN: Strategies to land remote US job while living in living in EU?

#33

Post by meheleventyone »

The main thing is timezone, if you’re past CET you’ll have a harder time working for a US company particularly if they’re west coast. For me in UTC-0 a lot of sync with PST people happens at the end of my day. For our couple of people working in CET that basically means running into the evening. Most remote jobs should state timezone preferences though.

For myself I got my job the boring, non-replicable way, through my professional network. If you have friends or ex-coworkers who’ve moved abroad it might be worth looking them up.

Re: Ask HN: Strategies to land remote US job while living in living in EU?

#34

Post by tomwojcik »

Pole here. $60k/yr is a slighly above average salary for a senior backend engineer in Poland so I think you're looking too far. It's much easier to find an even better offer from DACH countries.

I know people from Poland who work remotely for the US. Even though salary is much better ($120k is a starter), you need to assume you will be expected to participate in late night meetings, on-calls and in general assume much worse work-life balance than we, in Europe, are used to.

Re: Ask HN: Strategies to land remote US job while living in living in EU?

#35

Post by mrweasel »

sarchertech wrote: post #12

Many US companies hiring people from Europe are treating them as de facto employees but paying them as contractors. This is illegal. It’s not something that the US government has been regularly enforcing. But if the trend continues and ends up on the public’s radar, that will change.

That depends on where you live in the EU, but it is something you need to be aware of. Applying for a US job and work remote could be a legal and administrative nightmare for an employer, especially if you're the only one not in the US. A workaround is to have an employer of record in your country, who will be doing the actual hiring, and you effectively act as a contractor or consultant. It's not a fantastic solution, but it does work.

Timezones are a major hassle. You will end up with a lot of weird late afternoon, early evening meetings, which isn't great for family life. That might not matter if you're end up in the top 3% earners and your partner doesn't need to work as a result.

For some countries also be aware of things like on call. A US employer might not be ready to deal with the legal requirements in your country.

Re: Ask HN: Strategies to land remote US job while living in living in EU?

#37

Post by Semaphor »

krzyk wrote: post #32
Semaphor wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is probably doubly illegal. Not just in the US, but also in the country you live in. I don’t know for sure outside Germany, but I assume it’s similar: If you mainly live in Germany, you have to be hired according to German labor law (and pay taxes etc. in Germany)

Same in Poland. But this doesn't stop a lot, and I mean a lot companies from doing that.

I once accidentally did it in South Africa (went on a 6 months vacation, kept working for the company in Germany) because I didn’t know, and my boss didn’t either :D

Re: Ask HN: Strategies to land remote US job while living in living in EU?

#39

Post by meheleventyone »

csmpltn wrote: post #31
meheleventyone wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The illegal bit isn’t the pay structure but the treatment of a contractor as an employee. Both the European and US laws make this distinction with similar criteria. This is to make sure companies aren’t avoiding their obligations to employees. And just from a moral perspective if you’re expecting someone to act like an employee you should treat them in kind.

> "The illegal bit isn’t the pay structure but the treatment of a contractor as an employee." What's illegal here exactly? 1. US Business Entity conducts business with EU Business Entity. 2. The person (let's call them a contractor) is employed as a full-time employee for the EU Business Entity. They also function as the owner of the EU Business Entity. 3. US Business Entity, EU Business Entity and the contractor - a…

If the company contracting allows the contracting entity to maintain the autonomy and flexibility required then nothing. Just wrapping people in shell companies doesn’t usually avoid the legal tests for whether someone is being treated as an employee or contractor AFAIK.

Re: Ask HN: Strategies to land remote US job while living in living in EU?

#40

Post by mgraupner »

piinecone wrote: post #9

I’ve been living in Europe for 7 years and working remotely for US companies. Here is what I do (please tell me about better ideas!): 1. Apply to US remote jobs on the east coast and mention working from Europe. I’ve had a lot of luck overlapping for half a day. Not so great in a leadership position though. 2. Contact colleagues you like working with at US companies and see if they’re open to working with you. Someon…

Just some input for you: Confirmation mail went straight to the spam folder in Google Mail. After confirmation send a mail with link to profile and some welcome message, how am I suppose to find my profile again? Let me edit my profile afterwards.
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