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Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

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Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#241

Post by Nextgrid »

S201 wrote: post #164
ravenstine wrote: post #71

What exactly are these companies supposed to do? Web access really is the meat behind modern OS usage. Say what you want about Microsoft, but that's exactly what they realized when they began shipping Internet Explorer with Windows (and got into hot water over it). Safari can't be deleted from iOS, but aspects of Safari are integral to the OS. As long as someone can use another web browser for actual web browsing, as…

> Maybe Mozilla can knock off the grandstanding, the money wasting, the back patting, and just work on making a competitive browser. You can have the best product in the market but if the deck is unfairly stacked against you it doesn't matter how good your product is.

Firefox is by no means the "best" product, it's an average Chrome clone that's worse than competing Chromium derivatives (Brave, Vivaldi, Edge, etc) from a compatibility and performance point of view.

Back when Firefox actually was the best product, it stole ~30% (or even more?) marketshare from Internet Explorer, despite the latter being bundled with the OS.

Firefox can be the best browser with third-party add-ons (such as uBlock Origin) and a custom configuration, but Mozilla would rather puff more hot air like this (and their other commitments to "privacy", despite their telemetry implementation not even being GDPR compliant) rather than actually making Firefox the best product.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#242

Post by bmicraft »

registeredcorn wrote: post #226
bryanlarsen wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a common autocomplete behaviour. It's trying to be helpful. If you actually wanted ktorrent, you probably would have selected ktorrent on 'kt'. By typing another letter you're hinting you might want something other than ktorrent. Not sure if I agree with the behaviour, but I understand it.

Here's one I'm quickly finding tedious in Fedora: "Chery" I'm misspelling CherryTree. Instead of getting note taking software, VLC starts playing "11 - Pulmonary Archery (Explicit).flac" This is annoying not just because it's not what I wanted, but also because I already have music playing, music which is now abruptly cut off.

You can turn individual krunner plugins off, like "Recent files".

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#243

Post by Nextgrid »

summerlight wrote: post #99

Unfortunately in the current landscape, I think Firefox will unlikely gain the traction again even if we can bring those big techs to a fair playground. Browser development becomes an extremely complex, expensive project that requires at least hundreds of engineering headcounts and Mozilla cannot simply afford it. Worse, Servo was a kind of big bet to change the equation from the ground but Mozilla decided to abandon…

See my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32959277 - Firefox is not failing because of anti-competitiveness, it's failing because in its default configuration it's not bringing much to the table for the average user compared to Chrome or Edge.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#244

Post by sshine »

epolanski wrote: post #206
ht85 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The win11 / Edge bullshit finally pushed me to migrate my last win machine to linux. I used to love Windows, nowadays it just makes me bitter. Do you know typing "torrent" in the start menu doesn't find "qbittorrent"? In 2022. It sums it all. And the acquisitions... I've had countless minecraft sessions ruined because of microsoft account / store issues. Don't even get me started on realms and the chat policing bulls…

Oddly enough I can't find a better programming environment nowadays than the win, wsl, powertools combo. I noticed the same about qbittorrent tho.

Ubuntu + VSCode?

Not sure where powertools come in, but I’m personally agnostic wrt. shell scripting flavours.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#245

Post by lemon_bottle »

Well, a part of Mozilla (the foundation) keeps calling out Apple, Google and other big tech companies for their control, censorship and browser monopolies. However, another part (the corporation) keeps accepting regular pay checks from Google to fund themselves, can't really wrap my head around this "Mozilla Foundation vs Corporation" conundrum!

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#246

Post by Nextgrid »

challenger-derp wrote: post #19

Firefox has some really good privacy features built-in (some aren't enabled by default and requires minor configuration by users). In contrast, some big tech firms (you know who they are) that have a business model that involves profiting off of users' data are inherently deterred from delivering really good privacy features.

Firefox's built-in privacy features are meaningless as long as it has single-digit marketshare and the user-agent itself sticks out like a sore thumb.

Furthermore, the only real way to make a difference by actually blocking malicious domains and resources - uBlock Origin - still isn't bundled by default despite being permissively licensed and Firefox having a way to install extensions at first run (that's how Pocket is distributed - it's not built into the browser, instead it's an extension automatically downloaded on first run).

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#247

Post by sshine »

leetcrew wrote: post #224
epolanski wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oddly enough I can't find a better programming environment nowadays than the win, wsl, powertools combo. I noticed the same about qbittorrent tho.

I'm one of those weird people that genuinely enjoys using windows as my main OS. vc++ and c# stuff is very nice on that OS, but I still feel like wsl is a bit like shoving a square peg into a round hole. too often, things that "just work" on a full-fledged linux install fail on wsl for some obscure reason. my solution is to use windows for GUI things, and a remote linux instance for actual building/running/deploying…

Is running a VirtualBox and sharing the work folder too slow?

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#248

Post by pempem »

smoldesu wrote: post #24
dont__panic wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing that 20 years on, the USA has essentially given up on anti-trust tech regulation. Facebook acquired and repeatedly copied its closest competitors, no problem. Adobe buys up its competitors, no problem. Google aggressively pushes Chrome and fails to makes its own websites fully compatible with competitors, carry on. Apple refuses to give users the freedom to run their own apps on their purchased phones, no big…

My guess is that the government realized that FAANG makes for better bedfellows than sworn enemies. They can wave economic incentives in front of their face in exchange for international power beyond what other countries can offer. Having Google, Amazon, Apple and Microsoft under your thumb gives you control over ~80% of the internet and <95% of all PII. There is obviously a domestic interest in controlling that, so…

Who is under whose thumb here?

Like most things, its a bit of a two way street.

From an intelligence perspective, I agree w huntergatherer that everyone's not under active surveillance. IMO the problem is:

- once you are its far cheaper and more complete to surveil than it used to be, and...

- the bar to be a "party of interest" is far lower than it used to be. We can see this especially as some tech filters downwards into local police stations.

Its also tremendously useful for FAANG/MAANG to ensure their interests are adopted by elected officials and US officials are pretty cheaply bought. Honestly two senior SWE salaries for a year would do it for most congressmen. Just like Altria, or energy companies, tech companies donate to both sides of the fence, solicit tax breaks from both sides of the fence and look to keep labor cheap and competition low so that their owners/shareholders/investors are enriched.

From a federal government perspective, we need these companies to be 'American'. It doesn't matter where they pay their taxes, how much they off-shore work, etc. these companies trade on the US stock exchange, make up one of the strongest economies in the world, driving capital and human talent from every corner of the world to the US.

Why slow all that down in the name of 'fairness', user protection, competition and a lack of predictability

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#249

Post by Nextgrid »

graiz wrote: post #130

Google Chrome gained dominance and was not the default on Windows or Mac. Firefox is an Ok product but isn't super compelling for a typical user.

Mozilla and its defenders love bashing others about anti-competitiveness but the truth is that their product, in its default configuration, doesn't bring much to the table for the typical user.

Back when Firefox did actually bring much to the table compared to the incumbent, it gained respectable marketshare: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32959277

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#250

Post by tssva »

sshine wrote: post #240
dpkirchner wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely broken, but apparently by design. It's a deliberbug.

Microsoft is full of those. When you enter your birthday during Windows installation (yes, you have to have a Microsoft network account to log in to your own computer, and you have to supply a birthday), the button for confirming the date is a small, grey checkmark hiding below the date picker. Clicking the big, blue “Continue” button in the lower corner will discard your date choice (since it wasn’t picked) and then…

I login to Win11 everyday and don't have a Microsoft account.
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