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Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

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Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#301

As someone who has actually worked on end to end encryption at Meta, I can tell you I am not aware of anything where the company reads your WhatsApp messages - either in transit or device. The company takes fairly serious measures to ensure it cannot even accidentally infer such contents. I don't know what is happening in this specific case. Perhaps the ads came from some other similar search queries. Perhaps they ca…

Google, Apple, or Meta retain the power to ship a tweaked binary with a compromised RNG to a subset of users if authorities order them to be it now or in the future after a privacy policy change.

Proprietary encryption means users cannot verify or control the keys or the code that generates or uses the keys. The app can exfiltrate the keys or do any keyword processing on behalf of Meta as well which can include well intentioned features like forwarding paintext messages containing certain dangerous-seeming words to authorities or theoretically trusted third party review teams. Naturally they could also return -metrics- about frequency of word use back to Meta for ad targeting as well.

I too have been a champion of encryption and privacy at past companies only to have all my work undone and watch all the data become plaintext and abused for marketing by a new acquirer.

The only way end to end encryption solutions can avoid these types of abuses is when the client software is open source and can be audited, reproducibly built, and signed by any interested volunteers from the public for accountability.

Short of that it is really not that much different than TLS with promises Meta will not peek, at least not directly, today.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#302

As someone who has actually worked on end to end encryption at Meta, I can tell you I am not aware of anything where the company reads your WhatsApp messages - either in transit or device. The company takes fairly serious measures to ensure it cannot even accidentally infer such contents. I don't know what is happening in this specific case. Perhaps the ads came from some other similar search queries. Perhaps they ca…

Are you absolutely sure that this is still the case? You say you "used" to work on it, but modus operandi for these companies is rugpulling protections like this as soon as nobody is looking

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd prefer to say whatever I want. Must have filed it in the wrong place.

You can say whatever you want, doesn't mean I won't criticize you for it or downvote you. And I'll flag if you violate HN guidelines, which you have.

Cool! Which ones?

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#304

As someone who has actually worked on end to end encryption at Meta, I can tell you I am not aware of anything where the company reads your WhatsApp messages - either in transit or device. The company takes fairly serious measures to ensure it cannot even accidentally infer such contents. I don't know what is happening in this specific case. Perhaps the ads came from some other similar search queries. Perhaps they ca…

What about spell-check data?

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source?

We did an experiment. We talked about how hard it is to find highlighter yellow nail polish. Nobody in the house is a purchaser of nail polish nor did we do any searches for highlighter or yellow or nail or polish. A day or two later my wife got an Instagram ad for highlighter yellow nail polish. It could have been a coincidence or maybe they were listening. Or maybe some combination of things we did previously led n…

Do you have the setting that turns on end to end encryption? I thought by default it was off (and always off for group chats) ?

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#306
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GP didn’t say they were using iPhone. The Facebook app on Android has been known to record audio even when running in the background

It was an iPhone, and there is no indication from the phone when the mic is recording.

Android has a notification now when the mic is recording and has had the ability to deny microphone and lots of other access for a long time now. Thankfully it sounds like iOS is catching up

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't the Facebook app drain your battery?

Try any voice recording app for a few hours, now use the facebook app for the same number of hours. The impact on battery life of a mic actively recording alone is very noticeable, so noticeable that your phone has a special chip just to recognize patterns similar to “hey siri”.

It would not need to record high quality audio and could maybe even take advantage of that same chip? Just thinking out loud here - smaller, crappier audio would also be easier to send back unnoticed (or instead of even recording audio it could be transcribing on the fly to a text file using something super basic and easy with low accuracy)

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#308
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t iPhone have an indicator when the mic is recording? Also, this feels like it would be insanely easy to test by capturing the payloads sent to FB; you could even use something like Charles Proxy to do it. FB having access to microphone makes sense for plenty of other completely innocent reasons (for example, if you can record a video from inside the app). If this was actually true, I can’t help but feel that som…

The GP didn’t say they were using iPhone. The Facebook app on Android has been known to record audio even when running in the background

That's not possible without permissions these days, same as iOS. In Android 13, background processes have no mic or camera access whatsoever.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#309
post #5

Just because that the messages might be sent end-to-end encrypted from Sue to Joe does not mean Meta cannot read them. Meta has control over the app Sue uses. So they could send them to Meta unencrypted in addition to sending them to Joe in an encrypted fashion. Or they just extract the relevant terms: Sue->Joe: "Hello Joe, I'm so excited! We are going to have a baby! Let's call it Dingbert. You're not the father! Ji…

More so, my wife sent me a picture of my daughter working on a puzzle. Less than 24 hours later, her Instagram was showing ads for a store that was selling the same type of puzzle as the one my daughter was playing with. So it's not just terms but images too.

How did she buy the puzzle to begin with.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#310
post #301

As someone who has actually worked on end to end encryption at Meta, I can tell you I am not aware of anything where the company reads your WhatsApp messages - either in transit or device. The company takes fairly serious measures to ensure it cannot even accidentally infer such contents. I don't know what is happening in this specific case. Perhaps the ads came from some other similar search queries. Perhaps they ca…

Google, Apple, or Meta retain the power to ship a tweaked binary with a compromised RNG to a subset of users if authorities order them to be it now or in the future after a privacy policy change. Proprietary encryption means users cannot verify or control the keys or the code that generates or uses the keys. The app can exfiltrate the keys or do any keyword processing on behalf of Meta as well which can include well…

Even with end to end encryption couldnt the app at the end also be just aggregating the data (or even transcribing audio) to send over separately?
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