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Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

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Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#291

Post by Nextgrid »

elliekelly wrote: post #271
a1371 wrote: post #266

Whenever you post a link in Whatsapp, the app tries to create a card from the metadata available in the link. The procedure to make the card presumably goes through fb servers and is outside the e2e. Could they be using that? Another hypothesis is that you are taking other steps such as searching for that topic so that you can send something to your wife those extra steps might be enabling tracking.

I often wonder this about unsolicited media text messages (which, for me at least, are almost all political) and whether they might use the iMessage automatic “preview” function to track whether or not a message has been opened/viewed. As far as I’m aware it’s not a feature you can turn off on iOS.

I’m pretty sure the iMessage previews are generated by the sender and sent with the message itself - the recipient doesn’t parse the link.

Can easily be proven by sending someone a link that only you can access (hosted on the LAN which the recipient can’t reach) and seeing if the recipient still sees a preview.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#292

Post by netsectoday »

whimsicalism wrote: post #288
netsectoday wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a message board about tech... comments aren't welcome anymore - we need evidence to participate? I think it's interesting when a bunch of people chime in and say "Hey, yeah, I had some crazy thing happen to me, I'm in tech and understand how this stuff works, and there's a very small to zero chance this happened through some other parallel construction by the tech company, they just straight up listened to my…

In general I agree, but I think when you are being explicitly asked for a "source" in response to an allegation that it is settled that FB has been "caught recording people," I would prefer to not have anecdotes in reply.

I'd prefer to say whatever I want. Must have filed it in the wrong place.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#293

Post by Drakim »

worker767424 wrote: post #287
Closi wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From WhatsApp privacy policy: We limit the information we share with Meta in important ways. For example, we will always protect your personal conversations with end-to-end encryption, so that neither WhatsApp nor Meta can see these private messages.

It's possible that the client blindly fetches a mapping from keyword to ads, saw the keyword client-side, then requested the ad.

You'd indirectly reveal what those keywords are to Meta by which ads are being requested. If an ad for a sex toy is being requested, it's pretty obvious what the two parties are talking about.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#294

Post by atoav »

worker767424 wrote: post #287
Closi wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From WhatsApp privacy policy: We limit the information we share with Meta in important ways. For example, we will always protect your personal conversations with end-to-end encryption, so that neither WhatsApp nor Meta can see these private messages.

It's possible that the client blindly fetches a mapping from keyword to ads, saw the keyword client-side, then requested the ad.

Still information leaks the encrypted channel and the trust is broken.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#295

Post by Nextgrid »

Snowbird3999 wrote: post #219

What I desperately want at this point in time: A button next to every ad that says "why me?" that details every byte of my data scraped to generate that specific ad. Was it a GPS location from an hour ago? Did you scan through my photos? Did you figure something out from my youtube watch history? TELL ME!

That’s technically required by the GDPR - any data controller must give you all the data they hold about you upon request and be able to review or explain any automated decision. This would include ad targeting data.

The problem is that the GDPR isn’t enforced enough even at a very basic level, let alone technicalities like this.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#296

Post by whimsicalism »

netsectoday wrote: post #292
whimsicalism wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general I agree, but I think when you are being explicitly asked for a "source" in response to an allegation that it is settled that FB has been "caught recording people," I would prefer to not have anecdotes in reply.

I'd prefer to say whatever I want. Must have filed it in the wrong place.

You can say whatever you want, doesn't mean I won't criticize you for it or downvote you.

And I'll flag if you violate HN guidelines, which you have.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#297

Post by philsnow »

jtbayly wrote: post #103
FreeHugs wrote: post #5

Just because that the messages might be sent end-to-end encrypted from Sue to Joe does not mean Meta cannot read them. Meta has control over the app Sue uses. So they could send them to Meta unencrypted in addition to sending them to Joe in an encrypted fashion. Or they just extract the relevant terms: Sue->Joe: "Hello Joe, I'm so excited! We are going to have a baby! Let's call it Dingbert. You're not the father! Ji…

> Just because that the messages might be sent end-to-end encrypted from Sue to Joe does not mean Meta cannot read them. No, that's precisely what End-to-End encryption means.

Until there are cybernetic implants, the "ends" are the app running on your phones, which they control.

The quandary of what one allows to run on those implants sounds like a chilling sci-fi novel (chilling not because "but FAANG could read your thoughts!" but because people would absolutely still get them installed).

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#298

Post by jlarocco »

Closi wrote: post #273
FreeHugs wrote: post #5

Just because that the messages might be sent end-to-end encrypted from Sue to Joe does not mean Meta cannot read them. Meta has control over the app Sue uses. So they could send them to Meta unencrypted in addition to sending them to Joe in an encrypted fashion. Or they just extract the relevant terms: Sue->Joe: "Hello Joe, I'm so excited! We are going to have a baby! Let's call it Dingbert. You're not the father! Ji…

In principle yes, in practice no, as this is a statement from the WhatsApp website: > We limit the information we share with Meta in important ways. For example, we will always protect your personal conversations with end-to-end encryption, so that neither WhatsApp nor Meta can see these private messages.

Do you really trust TOS like that, though?

Assuming they're not blatantly violating the policy (which I think they've done before), it's pretty easy to weasel out of that statement by only sharing keywords from the conversation, or only sharing the info with advertisers (but not WhatsApp and Meta), or redefining what a "personal conversation" is, or carefully redefining what "end-to-end encryption" means, or ...

There's no transparency, a huge power imbalance, and terrific pressure on WhatsApp/Meta to monetize as much as possible.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#299

Post by criddell »

paulrouget wrote: post #241
criddell wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We did an experiment. We talked about how hard it is to find highlighter yellow nail polish. Nobody in the house is a purchaser of nail polish nor did we do any searches for highlighter or yellow or nail or polish. A day or two later my wife got an Instagram ad for highlighter yellow nail polish. It could have been a coincidence or maybe they were listening. Or maybe some combination of things we did previously led n…

Am I missing something? Why carrot?

I’ve always assumed it’s because of the association of 14 with 14 carat gold.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#300

Post by netsectoday »

titaniczero wrote: post #258
netsectoday wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't the Facebook app drain your battery?

Try any voice recording app for a few hours, now use the facebook app for the same number of hours. The impact on battery life of a mic actively recording alone is very noticeable, so noticeable that your phone has a special chip just to recognize patterns similar to “hey siri”.

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