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Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

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Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#221

Post by soared »

Snowbird3999 wrote: post #219

What I desperately want at this point in time: A button next to every ad that says "why me?" that details every byte of my data scraped to generate that specific ad. Was it a GPS location from an hour ago? Did you scan through my photos? Did you figure something out from my youtube watch history? TELL ME!

The small blue adchoices triangle logo in the corner of some ads, if clicked, will sometimes tell you some of that information. Like who served the ad, if they targeting was from the content of the page or an audience segment, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#223

Post by titaniczero »

procinct wrote: post #211
netsectoday wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Don’t iPhone have an indicator when the mic is recording? Also, this feels like it would be insanely easy to test by capturing the payloads sent to FB; you could even use something like Charles Proxy to do it. FB having access to microphone makes sense for plenty of other completely innocent reasons (for example, if you can record a video from inside the app). If this was actually true, I can’t help but feel that som…

And don’t forget the battery. A mic recording 24/7 would drain the battery much faster and would not go unnoticed unless specialized hardware is used like the one for “hey siri” and “ok google”.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#224

Post by amacneil »

I am 99% sure Meta/Facebook have secretly broken WhatsApp e2e encryption by adding a second key to all users.

I have security code change notifications enabled, and around November 4, 2021 a large number of my unrelated contacts suddenly had security code changes. There wasn’t any media reporting at the time, but I remember some others mentioning it on Reddit[0] (would love if anyone here can scroll back in their message history and look for security code changes around the same time - maybe we can finally shine some light on this).

Since then I have assumed they are flat out lying about the fact that “not even WhatsApp can read your messages” (direct quote from the iOS app).

Also note that both iMessage and WhatsApp strongly encourage you to enable iCloud backups, which are not e2e encrypted and readable by Apple (Apple only claim backups are “encrypted” and that messages are “e2e” encrypted):

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what...

At least Apple are not flat out lying like Meta, but they are still being incredibly deceptive with their marketing.

Use Signal if you care about e2e encryption. Everything else is a marketing slight of hand.

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/whatsapp/comments/qm2ufw/security_c...

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#225

Post by dagmx »

philliphaydon wrote: post #172

I’m convinced WhatsApp’s e2e is BS. Because multiple times I’ve mentioned something I’ve never even googled and then had Facebook ads for those things show up minutes later. The most notable one being renting an apartment. I viewed an apartment then sent a message to the agent requesting window grills or latches and then had adverts for that stuff straight away. When ever I mention this on HN I get downvoted with lam…

In all your scenarios the likely answer , even with great e2e is that WhatsApp would still know who you messaged and they might have googled the words at some point.

Your agent might have searched for latches after you messaged them. Your friend likely searched for cat litter before he messaged you.

In each of those cases, E2E may still be active but you’re compromised by the human equivalent of the age old analog hole.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#226

Post by whatsthatabout »

amacneil wrote: post #224

I am 99% sure Meta/Facebook have secretly broken WhatsApp e2e encryption by adding a second key to all users. I have security code change notifications enabled, and around November 4, 2021 a large number of my unrelated contacts suddenly had security code changes. There wasn’t any media reporting at the time, but I remember some others mentioning it on Reddit[0] (would love if anyone here can scroll back in their mes…

"Also note that both iMessage and WhatsApp strongly encourage you to enable iCloud backups, which are not e2e encrypted and readable by Apple"

-> That's not completely true (at least for WhatsApp): It is possible to enable a e2e encrypted backup right in the chat-backup menu.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#227

Post by muzani »

dan-robertson wrote: post #146

I think you partly may just be biased by happening to notice ads more if they fit the topic you sent to your wife or being lenient in deciding if ads meet the categorization. And if you dwell on an ad because it seems to match, you may get more similar ads. Here is how I think you could design a more robust (but less fun) experiment: - Come up with a bunch of topics, write them down on slips of paper, put the paper i…

I don't think it can be observed because it's likely a bug. It freaks users out. People uninstall the app and start threads like this.

It's sort of like getting mugged once and then setting up a camera in a bunch of alleys to prove that muggers exist. You can even set up a camera of yourself running into dark alleys every night, but the odds of reproducing a mugging is still extremely low.

There's a certain kind of precision that convinces me it's real though. Precision is common. I look at a book on Amazon, and a FB ad for that book appears.

But I get rejected for a loan via WhatsApp and then used car ads appear for that model of car that I applied a loan for? That's a bit on the nose.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#228

Post by philliphaydon »

brigandish wrote: post #218
philliphaydon wrote: post #172

I’m convinced WhatsApp’s e2e is BS. Because multiple times I’ve mentioned something I’ve never even googled and then had Facebook ads for those things show up minutes later. The most notable one being renting an apartment. I viewed an apartment then sent a message to the agent requesting window grills or latches and then had adverts for that stuff straight away. When ever I mention this on HN I get downvoted with lam…

Did you view the apartment with…? - the agent present - you both had smartphones on you - they both had bluetooth data enabled - they are both signed into location services - you'd added the agent to your contacts or they add you to theirs - you took pictures (and didn't strip the EXIF data) - you exchanged emails with the agent via gmail - you rang each other via a VOIP service - you used a map app to find the place…

The agent is a friend so I had in my contact list for years.

We exchange listings to apartments to view so absolutely they know I'm looking at apartments and all that stuff.

Getting adverts for apartments is fine because I know I searched and browsed sites etc. The issue is for 2 weeks I looked at apartments. Got some adverts for AirBnb, other property sites, etc.

The particular apartment I looked at, I viewed it, walked around it, etc. Went home, pondered to myself about the apartments I had looked at that day...

Looked at facebook, etc...

Hours later I go to WhatsApp, message the agent, something like.

"I really like apartment X but the only issue is the windows don't have grills and its the 23rd floor, would you mind asking the landlord if we can get grills or window latches? If they are willing to do that then I think I'll take that apartment"

(give or take on the message as it was 3 years ago? That I took it...)

Agent had not read the message yet, infact he didn't read it until well after 6pm.

I go to facebook (2-3 minutes?) after messaging him, and I have adverts for grills and window latches.

I had not googled them, the only mention ever of grills or latches was a message on whatsapp a few minutes earlier...

---------------

Even if they are scanning the messages on the client, as far as I'm concerned it's no longer e2e. They are scanning my personal message, analysising it, building a profile on me, and using it for advertising.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#230

Post by tonmoy »

procinct wrote: post #211
netsectoday wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Don’t iPhone have an indicator when the mic is recording? Also, this feels like it would be insanely easy to test by capturing the payloads sent to FB; you could even use something like Charles Proxy to do it. FB having access to microphone makes sense for plenty of other completely innocent reasons (for example, if you can record a video from inside the app). If this was actually true, I can’t help but feel that som…

The GP didn’t say they were using iPhone. The Facebook app on Android has been known to record audio even when running in the background
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