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Good Coffee Is Now Bad

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Re: Good Coffee Is Now Bad

#81

Post by masklinn »

neogodless wrote: post #47
masklinn wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But since I can't really whip out my french press in an airport You can whip out an aeropress in an airport, and can probably finnagle 200mL boiling water from one of the eateries or shops (I would assume that to be the bigger challenge as you can’t exactly start a fire at the gate, not to mention carrying a gas cartridge through security).

I can't even prevent my pre-coffee self from making a mess in my own kitchen with an Aeropress... god forbid my travel-exhausted self balancing my stuff on a suitcase in an airport lounge!

There’s mitigation options but they all have their limitations / issues:

- caffeine pill to wake up, then coffee for the taste / comfort

- brew in the evening (at home when flying out, at the hotel when flying back in) and store in a quality insulated mug, using a zojirushi, freshly brewed coffee in yields too-hot-to-drink 10 hours later (but that’s nothing a travel mug and waiting a few minutes can’t solve).

- there’s also the flash-frozen thing which Hoffmann showed and seemed happy about, but I think it needs to remain frozen (it can’t be stored at room temp) which is not super convenient when travelling unless you have good logistics (or regularly travel back and forth so could have stashes at critical locations)

- similar situation (travel between known location), do better recon and find an acceptable coffee shop on the way (then hope they don’t go out of business)

Re: Good Coffee Is Now Bad

#82

Post by lm28469 »

Bakary wrote: post #31

I find the concept of taking pride in consuming differently from others to be a bit bizarre. You're not a farmer growing the coffee, or an agronomist planning for it, or a jovial Italian man running a shop for it, or even an engineer building a cool or stylish device for it. You're just a person who makes a purchase. Somehow, the modern world has fooled us into believing that this is a sufficient criteria to exist as…

> Somehow, the modern world has fooled us into believing that this is a sufficient criteria to exist as an individual.

> You're just a person who makes a purchase.

That's how you know capitalists won, most people don't even question it, dangle the new toy in front of their eyes and they'll buy it in a heartbeat. You _are_ what you consume. Most hobbies are now consumption hobby, you have to get the most exotic or expensive gadget to show your peer you're better than them.

Go to bicycles, watches, pencil, cameras, &c. subreddit and witness it, it's the weirdest thing ever, it's almost like watching another form of life

> The proliferation of faddish gadgets reflects the fact that as the mass of commodities becomes increasingly absurd, absurdity itself becomes a commodity.

> Reified people proudly display the proofs of their intimacy with the commodity. Like the old religious fetishism, with its convulsionary raptures and miraculous cures, the fetishism of commodities generates its own moments of fervent exaltation. All this is useful for only one purpose: producing habitual submission.

> The pseudoneeds imposed by modern consumerism cannot be opposed by any genuine needs or desires that are not themselves also shaped by society and its history. But commodity abundance represents a total break in the organic development of social needs. Its mechanical accumulation unleashes an unlimited artificiality which overpowers any living desire.

Re: Good Coffee Is Now Bad

#83

Post by photochemsyn »

The creation of 'high-value' coffee is really just taking the natural variation among coffee from different regions and plant strains, differentiating them into different products, and slapping an additional 50% or so onto the price tag.

Here, I think the coffee industry took a page from the wine industry and started talking about things like 'terroir', 'single origin', 'unique flavor notes' and so on. This isn't all snobbery, and it has some good side effects - the field-to-table graph is a bit clearer and shorter, and coffee producers seem to be getting better prices on their product relative to past eras.

However, to get these 'unique flavors' the roasters have cut back on roasting times, resulting in lighter roasted beans with higher levels of acidity. Some appear to like the result; personally I like the darker roasts much more, and the time-since-roasted factor has more to do with the quality of the brewed cup than anything else.

Re: Good Coffee Is Now Bad

#84

Post by cush »

twawaaay wrote: post #49

> My theory on good and bad coffee, oddly, can be summed up by something they talk about in Top Gun: Maverick, about how it isn’t the plane but the pilot flying it that matters. This is the first thing I learned on barista course (I am not a barista, I got the course as a birthday present because I care a lot about coffee). As of now there exists no way to get a great coffee without having somebody with taste and kno…

Shops are opening left and right with specialty beans, great atmosphere, pastries, and the $30k La Marzocco espresso machine, yet the baristas have no training, can't steam milk, and pull shots that taste like battery acid.

The reason the coffee costs $6 a cup is to pay the pilot

Re: Good Coffee Is Now Bad

#85

Post by amanaplanacanal »

Terretta wrote: post #68
Myrmornis wrote: post #46

My usual way of drinking coffee is espresso with warm milk, so, a latte. In the USA, I believe that espresso-with-milk drinks are vastly superior at Peets or Starbucks, than they are at smaller, more "sophisticated" places. I'm not a coffee expert, but it seems to me that the big chains sell espresso that tastes more like espresso traditionally does in, say, Italy. I'm guessing that the smaller boutique / specialty c…

Starbucks aims to taste burnt*. Espresso in Italy doesn't. Agree boutiques often have a flavor too far forward for espresso as you'd find it in Italy. * I read why somewhere a long time ago, can't find it.

I think the reason is volume. They have to buy so many beans that the individual flavors and quality are all over the map. They have to roast them very dark to get something like a consistent product.

Re: Good Coffee Is Now Bad

#86

Post by skywhopper »

iddan wrote: post #60

Sorry to break it to you, but there is such thing as good coffee. In Tel Aviv, Rome, Vienna, Athens, Berlin, Tokyo, Kyoto and Warsaw when I went to specialty coffee I’ve got supreme coffee: roasted correctly, reach in flavour and creating a lasting good feeling. Unfortunately I can’t say that about other places. For instance in London I couldn’t get a single good cup of coffee (and i tried them all, really). I agree…

You tried every coffee in London? How long did that take?

Re: Good Coffee Is Now Bad

#87

Post by criddell »

cush wrote: post #84
twawaaay wrote: post #49

> My theory on good and bad coffee, oddly, can be summed up by something they talk about in Top Gun: Maverick, about how it isn’t the plane but the pilot flying it that matters. This is the first thing I learned on barista course (I am not a barista, I got the course as a birthday present because I care a lot about coffee). As of now there exists no way to get a great coffee without having somebody with taste and kno…

Shops are opening left and right with specialty beans, great atmosphere, pastries, and the $30k La Marzocco espresso machine, yet the baristas have no training, can't steam milk, and pull shots that taste like battery acid. The reason the coffee costs $6 a cup is to pay the pilot

> the $30k La Marzocco espresso machine

I think it's interesting how a coffee shops are starting to hide their machines beneath the counter and just the group head is above (much like a beer tap). They don't get to show off their super expensive machine, but it does open up the counter for more human interactions (the barista isn't hidden behind a giant machine. I personally think it's a big improvement.

Re: Good Coffee Is Now Bad

#88

Post by criddell »

Terretta wrote: post #68
Myrmornis wrote: post #46

My usual way of drinking coffee is espresso with warm milk, so, a latte. In the USA, I believe that espresso-with-milk drinks are vastly superior at Peets or Starbucks, than they are at smaller, more "sophisticated" places. I'm not a coffee expert, but it seems to me that the big chains sell espresso that tastes more like espresso traditionally does in, say, Italy. I'm guessing that the smaller boutique / specialty c…

Starbucks aims to taste burnt*. Espresso in Italy doesn't. Agree boutiques often have a flavor too far forward for espresso as you'd find it in Italy. * I read why somewhere a long time ago, can't find it.

Traditionally, espresso in Italy varies significantly from the north to the south. Starbucks most popular roasts are to a level that was popular in Southern Italy.

Starbucks does sell some lighter roasts and can do pour overs and press pots. Talk to the people working there. In my experience they are knowledgeable, care about the coffee, and are friendly (especially when they aren't crazy busy).

Re: Good Coffee Is Now Bad

#89

Post by badpun »

mberning wrote: post #35
lotsofpulp wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The volatility in quality labor and ingredient prices is wreaking havoc on the probability of receiving a satisfactory food/drink. If I am going to receive my food/drink with a mistake or just not made well 50% of the time, I will just go without. And/or I am getting older and turning into my dad, but I feel like all the staff turnover and increases in ingredient pricing must have an effect on quality of product and…

And service. People are so habitualized to going out, spending money, receiving an inconsistent product, delivered with shambolic service, that they just can't stop, even if they recognize how bad things have gotten.

For most of them, it's better than nothing I guess? I personally almost never about crappy service or food quality because I suspect these people are still working harder than me at my dev job, while making a fraction of what I make. I shouldn't expect of other more than I expect of myself.

Re: Good Coffee Is Now Bad

#90

Post by amanj41 »

twawaaay wrote: post #49

> My theory on good and bad coffee, oddly, can be summed up by something they talk about in Top Gun: Maverick, about how it isn’t the plane but the pilot flying it that matters. This is the first thing I learned on barista course (I am not a barista, I got the course as a birthday present because I care a lot about coffee). As of now there exists no way to get a great coffee without having somebody with taste and kno…

This is a theory I hold about cocktails as well. At the end of the day, most cocktails are very simple and it boils down to a matter of ingredient ratios.

The fact most bars make crappy cocktails likely is due to the lack of such a feedback loop as you say. Anecdotally, almost every bar I have been to where the bartenders sample the drink have top notch cocktails.

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