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Will Coursekit Launch Up-End Blackboard?

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11–20 of 23 posts

Re: Will Coursekit Launch Up-End Blackboard?

#11

The only problem is that professors don't usually pick the software they use to deliver their online course -- they can certain pick certain applications, but the professors aren't the "buyer" it's the schools and cracking that nut is very, very difficult since Blackboard has heavy investment (and contractual agreements) with so many of the pick players in higher ed. Even if a professor wanted to switch, Blackboard i…

I wonder if they would have success by getting the product into community colleges and other two year schools (who might be particularly keen to save on Blackboard licenses). As students transferred out to larger four year colleges and were forced to deal with the mess that is Blackboard, they would probably be quick to talk up the (ostensibly) superior experience they had with Coursekit at their old school.

Re: Will Coursekit Launch Up-End Blackboard?

#12
post #11

The only problem is that professors don't usually pick the software they use to deliver their online course -- they can certain pick certain applications, but the professors aren't the "buyer" it's the schools and cracking that nut is very, very difficult since Blackboard has heavy investment (and contractual agreements) with so many of the pick players in higher ed. Even if a professor wanted to switch, Blackboard i…

I wonder if they would have success by getting the product into community colleges and other two year schools (who might be particularly keen to save on Blackboard licenses). As students transferred out to larger four year colleges and were forced to deal with the mess that is Blackboard, they would probably be quick to talk up the (ostensibly) superior experience they had with Coursekit at their old school.

Interesting you mention community colleges. We beta tested Classhive (similar product that no longer exists) at a large public university, a medium sized private college, and a medium sized community college.

When we spoke with teachers and students at all three, I believe our feedback from community colleges was much better due to the fact that they are under-served in this space.

Re: Will Coursekit Launch Up-End Blackboard?

#13

The only problem is that professors don't usually pick the software they use to deliver their online course -- they can certain pick certain applications, but the professors aren't the "buyer" it's the schools and cracking that nut is very, very difficult since Blackboard has heavy investment (and contractual agreements) with so many of the pick players in higher ed. Even if a professor wanted to switch, Blackboard i…

> Convince some small school

This is exactly right. We built our own app for our medical school. Still live, tmedweb.tulane.edu. The professional schools (law, medicine, business) are smaller, and generally have the money and flexibility to move on something like this. We were turning away schools before several of us graduated. Downside of developing in med school: instead of graduating into a self-made job, you go to an internship in a hospital and the whole world outside the hospital ceases to exist.

Tulane has doubled down on the project and hired a developer fulltime to run it. Who got which chunks of code, I still don't know. It could probably stand a complete rewrite though.

points that worked for us:

you (the professor) and your course coordinators, TAs, etc, don't realize how broken the BlackBoard paradigm is, how it clouds your thinking and slows you down, until you try something else. Lets do some click races...

Your students check out every time BlackBoard is involved. Anything would make them like you more.

You really can access usage statistics. Just not with BlackBoard. Hey, dean, you want to know which professor downloads correlate with improvement on board scores? We can ask questions like that.

Re: Will Coursekit Launch Up-End Blackboard?

#14

No disrespect to CourseKit, but what's so special about this LMS vs all the other new ones on the market every year? BBBB suing you is not the biggest issue LMSes have, it's actually getting traction.

Cohen is doing customer development by being on site. If BB is so atrocious, they probably haven't been doing enough.

Re: Will Coursekit Launch Up-End Blackboard?

#15
I worked in academia for quite a few years. This is an industry that could really use disrupting, but I'm incredibly cynical about the possibilities of this ever happening (as far as changing internal software).

Just about anyone on HN could write a better lms than blackboard, and sell it for 1/100 of the cost for huge profit margins (okay maybe some exaggeration here, but not much). But blackboard is not unique, almost all institutional level software in universities is terrible and expensive.

This isn't a problem with bad vendors it's a problem with the institution doing the purchasing.

For starters the idea that "Cohen plans to sell Coursekit to professors instead of letting university IT departments slow him down." Is flawed on many levels.

Firstly it's no accident that university IT departments are unnecessarily central to purchasing decisions, they spent and will continue to spend much political capital on campus to remain that way. As soon as campus IT departments catch wind of this strategy, they will fight in every-way to make it as amazingly inconvenient as possible to go this route. Most professors are busy enough that it's not worth their time to fight campus IT over what is ultimately a minor part of their course.

Second faculty don't usually have budgets to purchase product like this for their classes (again institutions have deliberately grown this way to keep central departments powerful), they may have grant money but they would never spend it on something like this. So at a minimum it would have to be a departmental purchases, which mean that someone in the department will have to handle keeping track of making sure everything is paid for, students know how to use it etc. At which point departmental admins will just say "why not just let IT deal with it"

Additionally almost all professors I know already have their hands full with research and just teaching, let alone worrying about the burden of infrastructure. Most professors use Blackboard, not because it's useful, but because their campus IT departments have created university policies that make it a requirement or at least 'strongly suggested'.

I would love to see blackboard taken down, but in the end they're only a symptom of a much larger problem in higher ed.

Re: Will Coursekit Launch Up-End Blackboard?

#16

I worked in academia for quite a few years. This is an industry that could really use disrupting, but I'm incredibly cynical about the possibilities of this ever happening (as far as changing internal software). Just about anyone on HN could write a better lms than blackboard, and sell it for 1/100 of the cost for huge profit margins (okay maybe some exaggeration here, but not much). But blackboard is not unique, alm…

This is all true and Blackboard probably isn't even the worst of it. Our grad admissions is done using ApplyYourself which is a giant turd. The front office uses Peoplesoft and nobody has ever said anything good about it. This disconnect between the people who purchase the systems and the people who use them is horrible. Of course it happens at companies too...

Re: Will Coursekit Launch Up-End Blackboard?

#17
post #10

I headed up the team behind a similar project a few years ago called Classhive (www.classhive.com). The UI we built for the project is eerily similar to CourseKit, and we faced a lot of the same difficulties mentioned in this thread to get it to take off (which it ultimately did not). Even taking the one school at a time approach, it's still very difficult to get teachers to completely change which system they use wh…

breaks a few rules... that will happen :)

Re: Will Coursekit Launch Up-End Blackboard?

#18

I worked in academia for quite a few years. This is an industry that could really use disrupting, but I'm incredibly cynical about the possibilities of this ever happening (as far as changing internal software). Just about anyone on HN could write a better lms than blackboard, and sell it for 1/100 of the cost for huge profit margins (okay maybe some exaggeration here, but not much). But blackboard is not unique, alm…

I disagree that selling to professors is a bad idea. Personally, I suspect it is the only way to enter the market. Now I doubt that if a University approches you and asks to buy your product that you'd turn them down, but that will not happen until you've proven you have a much better product. You will never convince a whole University to switch to your new product unless it, works exactly the same in every-way, better in every way, and migrates in 10 minutes. There will be people who know Blackboard and oppose it because they don't want to have to learn a new system. Furthermore, it is unlikely you will convince a University to buy both Blackboard and your product.

The only people you could convince to buy your product are individual professors (or small departments) who hate Blackboard, which according to a quick survey is near 100%. Now many perhaps most are not willing to spend money for a class but there is a sizable percentage of professors that do care about teaching and would be willing to spend their own time/money to improve their students education. Even if a professor is acting selfishly Blackboard is such a pile of crap I see some professors paying money to not have to interact with it on a daily basis.

(On a side note my classmates wrote a program called Ben in High School back in the early 2000's that was used by the whole school, it was better than Blackboard. So I have a special personal hatred of the towards it.)

Re: Will Coursekit Launch Up-End Blackboard?

#19
I just went through the ordeal of creating, launching and failing at building a successful LMS. The good news is that I learned what teachers/professors really need, and it took falling on my face to learn it. If Coursekit fails, I hope they figure out a better route as well.

Re: Will Coursekit Launch Up-End Blackboard?

#20
post #18

I worked in academia for quite a few years. This is an industry that could really use disrupting, but I'm incredibly cynical about the possibilities of this ever happening (as far as changing internal software). Just about anyone on HN could write a better lms than blackboard, and sell it for 1/100 of the cost for huge profit margins (okay maybe some exaggeration here, but not much). But blackboard is not unique, alm…

I disagree that selling to professors is a bad idea. Personally, I suspect it is the only way to enter the market. Now I doubt that if a University approches you and asks to buy your product that you'd turn them down, but that will not happen until you've proven you have a much better product. You will never convince a whole University to switch to your new product unless it, works exactly the same in every-way, bett…

Coursekit is free for professors to use. There is no purchasing decision. People seem to be missing that point here. Wouldn't the main difficulty for the professor, besides adding the course content, would be to input the grades back to Blackboard or whatever system the school uses?
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