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The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

frame.work

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Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#301

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People are sleeping on how awesome Chrome OS is. It really is awesome. The 2020 equivalent of 2005 OS X vs. Windows. From there, Linux container. It's mind-boggling to me because I switched _off_ Apple the last 5 years after realizing how powerful it is to be able to pick up a well-made powerful laptop for $600 instead of $2400. It's so much better to have something thats an iPad and a laptop. Ugh. Anyways. Underrate…

Curious if you've test driven an Mx Mac?

Yes, tl;Dr got one at work for iOS dev a couple months back and I gotta be honest OS X is a real drag at this point. Brings me no pleasure to say this. Was such a huge fan.

Displays wider color range, CPUs faster, that's pretty much it on the positives side.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#304
post #294
post #216

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I appreciate the folks here being open about their biased opinions, because they are completely out of line with the reality I've seen. I teach IT in a college and I run a non-profit the refurbishes computers. I have not seen a remotely significant difference between ChromeOS and Linux (with Chrome Installed) for the vast majority of users. It is true that Linux on ChromeOS is annoyingly fiddly and my suspicion is th…

> remotely significant difference between ChromeOS and Linux (with Chrome Installed) for the vast majority of users You provide IT support, eg for school kids, and somehow they grok Linux just as well as a browser? That is not my experience.

No, I mean they turn on computer, there's a Chrome icon, and a start menu etc etc. It's pretty much the same experience. I'm not sure if they literally can much tell the difference.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#306
post #287

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That's pretty silly. I know you're exaggerating a bit, but marketing is in the business of public perception. If google took steps to reverse the trend, and the marketing department could highlight that, that would kill the meme.

Hence > As long as ‘killed by Google’ continues to be a well-known meme

As long as the fire continues to burn, the best firefighters in the world couldn't extinguish it.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#307

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Biased opinion: I work on ChromeOS at Google Biased but informed opinion: I own a Framework Laptop running Ubuntu 22.04. Linux on a server or a desktop isn't so bad. Linux on a laptop is awful. Hibernation isn't supported. Battery life is mediocre, and battery drain in sleep is significant. If I close the lid on my Framework at 75% and come back the next day, it will be at 25%. If I come back in 3 days, it will be co…

> Even on a device designed to support Linux (Framework, Thinkpad, whatever) There's apparently a world of difference. Nothing about the Framework suggests it was designed for Linux. A proper Thinkpad does not have issues with hibernation, or losing battery, or graphics, or any of the other things you mentioned. I just want something that works, and will receive updates as long as there are users. I don't want to muc…

> A proper Thinkpad does not have issues with hibernation, or losing battery, or graphics, or any of the other things you mentioned.

Not sure if my E495 would qualify as a "proper thinkpad", although I've read about the same issues on T series laptops, I've almost never managed to make my laptop sleep in the 3 years I've owned this laptop starting from kernel version 5.4.x to the present 5.19.x. Whenever I try to 'systemctl suspend', one of the following things happens

- the laptop sleeps for a few seconds and wakes up

- the laptop sleeps for a few seconds and wakes up completely frozen and I have to perform a hard reboot

- the laptop doesn't sleep and freezes and I have to perform a hard reboot

- the laptop sleeps successfully but when I wake it up, the screen is messed up with green colors all over the place, hard reboot needed

My laptop also kept freezing randomly from 5.4.x to 5.14.x.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#308

If Google partnered with Microsoft to bring the complete Excel/Word/PowerPoint programs to ChromeOS, I would jump ship in a heartbeat for our office fleet. I wonder if CodeWeavers CrossOver can run Office on ChromeOS reliably.

That is a space they are quite directly trying to win with their in browser suite of office tools, and chromeOS is, partly, a vehicle for that. I would be surprised to hear that G and MS partnered in that sort of a way.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#309
post #293

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But if we are honest: 1. is it really worse then windows 2. google does has privacy option, partially thanks to the EU forcing them and as far as I can tell they are not randomly "undone" with updates from time to time 3. a lot of more common users do also have instagram and similar, do most things through android/iOS apps and use google search and chrome, or some chrome derivate. How much additional information does…

Giving ChromeOS devices to low tech users that cannot understand the privacy and lock-in risks feels like a tech version of giving kids cigarettes. It is simply unethical. The HN crowd can make informed decisions to give Google control of their entire digital lives but we should not make that choice for others. I would never recommend Windows or MacOS to anyone for similar reasons so those are not a comparison I care…

>but we should not make that choice for others.

Much of the HN crowd has their finances intertwined with forcing these kinds of choices on consumers. Sometimes I dream of an awful de-anonymized internet where your financial holdings are bound to every post that you make online. I think binding that incentive might change how we ingest opinions.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even on a device designed to support Linux (Framework, Thinkpad, whatever) There's apparently a world of difference. Nothing about the Framework suggests it was designed for Linux. A proper Thinkpad does not have issues with hibernation, or losing battery, or graphics, or any of the other things you mentioned. I just want something that works, and will receive updates as long as there are users. I don't want to muc…

I'm glad you've had that experience, but it hasn't been mine. I've owned other laptops running Linux and have had plenty of coworkers with experiences as well. Heck, there's an entire team at Google dedicated (full of incredibly smart people who know way more about Linux than I ever will) to trying to get Linux running well on laptops. Plenty of people shared their experiences in this thread: https://news.ycombinator…

Not to take anything away from your experience, but drawing conclusions from threads like those is not the whole picture. That will be skewed against people who use problematic hardware, and say things like "the Linux way is tweaking everything".

But it's really not. Linux is mainly for users, by users. You're going to a very diverse set of users and experiences. For every tweaker out there you're going to find someone like me who just wants a unix-like operating system, with Perl and Python and everything else available with a minimum of fuss. They just don't speak up very often, because there's not much to something that works.

Of course it's important to mention the problematic bits too, and there's been many. I've mostly run Debian for over twenty years, and there has been several times where I had to fix issues from migrations such as rootless, utf8, python3 things, and file format migrations. For a long time things like hot plugging monitors, projectors and printers were a bit of a gamble.

But for the most part it's given me an environment where I can use a wide range of tools from emacs to nmap, from git to latex without giving a second thought how to configure paths, and how to fix some random missing dependency for a package to build, or why nginx doesn't pick up the changed file date. All those things have been ironed out by someone who went before me. That's worth a lot.

> I buy laptops based on their hardware specs (screen, keyboard, trackpad, weight, ports) rather than their compatibility with an operating system

Yes, that pretty much explains everything.

That's a luxury available to users only of a completely dominant software platform.

A Mac user could never say that. If you want OSX you must carefully buy supported hardware. You can buy a hackintosh, but don't fill up threads with complaints how bad the suspend works, and that the picture quality of the webcam is subpar.

Speaking for myself, I know what software I want to use. I do not care about hardware specifications in any other way than it runs my software reliably. Sometimes that means you can pick any color you want, as long as it's black. Black as my laptop.

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