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The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

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Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#291

Post by rejectfinite »

warent wrote: post #87
babypuncher wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most schools are using $200-$300 Chromebooks, I don't think this $999 high performance alternative is really targeting that market.

This is a great point. Also, even if it is actually cheaper in the long term because they can just upgrade parts from the modularity of it, I somehow feel skeptical that a school IT unit is going to have that level of foresight. Even if they do, will they be able to successfully persuade the suits that control the budget? Yup, you're right, this could be a very tough sell.

>a school IT unit is going to have that level of foresight

You think those IT people don't read here too? Its a budget thing sweetie, once you get a real job you understand.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#292

Post by linsomniac »

I have a couple HP Chromebook 13 G1 laptops that I loved quite a lot for ~5 years as my primary personal laptop. It worked really well for 95% of my needs, especially once it got the Linux container support (which was ~4 years in).

The first one I got was $550 for the 8GB RAM model with i5 and "retina" screen, that was a refurb from Woot, almost half off. The second one I got around a year ago when Linux container support landed, 16GB RAM, i7, "retina" screen. That one I got off ebay for $120 landed. I also got my son one that he used until a few days ago. Pretty decent little machine for that price.

My son switched to a $120 Windows ASUS laptop this past weekend because the Chromebook wouldn't run Windows games. I was half expecting him to give up on the new laptop because 4GB isn't much RAM, but he says it works great.

My mother in law was recently asking for laptop advice for a "ward of the court" she oversees that could do with a laptop to do zoom meetings for the court appearances, and to use for school. I went looking for Chromebooks and found: they are all priced the same as a similarly speced Windows laptop. The things I value about ChromeOS ("instant" updates, "nothing really on the device", "security") aren't things the average person (let alone teen) really care about... Kind of hard to recommend a Chromebook for the average person these days, unless I'm missing something.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#293

Post by lrvick »

dathinab wrote: post #275
lrvick wrote: post #256

ChromeOS is a privacy nightmare I cannot recommend to anyone which is a real shame because it is perhaps the most secure consumer focused workstation operating system out there. I wish any vendor would offer a privacy-by-default telemetry-disabled ChromiumOS option I could actually recommend.

But if we are honest: 1. is it really worse then windows 2. google does has privacy option, partially thanks to the EU forcing them and as far as I can tell they are not randomly "undone" with updates from time to time 3. a lot of more common users do also have instagram and similar, do most things through android/iOS apps and use google search and chrome, or some chrome derivate. How much additional information does…

Giving ChromeOS devices to low tech users that cannot understand the privacy and lock-in risks feels like a tech version of giving kids cigarettes. It is simply unethical. The HN crowd can make informed decisions to give Google control of their entire digital lives but we should not make that choice for others.

I would never recommend Windows or MacOS to anyone for similar reasons so those are not a comparison I care about either. I would certainly recommend a Chromebook over either if someone absolutely has no choice but those three, but there are almost always other choices if you make some time to teach someone.

Most Linux distros are a security shit show so pre-installed linux machines are hard to recommend to anyone that does anything high risk on their machines like financial work or journalism.

Degoogled ChromiumOS feels like a good security/privacy balance for most people but that is not currently a user friendly option for installation and upgrades.

In practice I find myself using and teaching others using their machines for anything remotely privacy or security sensitive to install and use QubesOS. For all the excellent privacy and security design it has a high learning curve and strict hardware requirements making it untenable for low-budget or low-tech users.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#294

Post by yunohn »

jrm4 wrote: post #216
duped wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the question is, why ChromeOS instead of a Linux?

I appreciate the folks here being open about their biased opinions, because they are completely out of line with the reality I've seen. I teach IT in a college and I run a non-profit the refurbishes computers. I have not seen a remotely significant difference between ChromeOS and Linux (with Chrome Installed) for the vast majority of users. It is true that Linux on ChromeOS is annoyingly fiddly and my suspicion is th…

> remotely significant difference between ChromeOS and Linux (with Chrome Installed) for the vast majority of users

You provide IT support, eg for school kids, and somehow they grok Linux just as well as a browser? That is not my experience.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#295

Post by sfvegandude »

kyrra wrote: post #102
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #68

This is awesome! I still use my Pixelbook, and I love it, and was always dismayed that it seemed to be yet another great product that Google lost interest in. For folks wondering "who's the market in this?", the Linux container support in ChromeOS is awesome - my Pixelbook was actually a great dev laptop (I ran postgres, VSCode, Node, etc on it), just with age it's lack of upgrades is starting to show. So for me, on…

Googler, opinions are my own. Google definitely has not lost interest. The Chromebook team at Google is actually involved in almost (all?) Chromebooks made. Since Google is responsible for all firmware/software updates for the life of that Chromebook, they are involved in that way. As well, the hardware/firmware teams here do a lot of the core engineering to getting the core parts of the hardware working (motherboard…

I’m seriously tempted by this. I’m not a chrome user today; I have heard that when MV3 comes out, I won’t be able to use adblockers in Chrome. Is that right?

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#296

Post by adamdusty »

warent wrote: post #87
babypuncher wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most schools are using $200-$300 Chromebooks, I don't think this $999 high performance alternative is really targeting that market.

This is a great point. Also, even if it is actually cheaper in the long term because they can just upgrade parts from the modularity of it, I somehow feel skeptical that a school IT unit is going to have that level of foresight. Even if they do, will they be able to successfully persuade the suits that control the budget? Yup, you're right, this could be a very tough sell.

It would need to last 3 times longer before needing a single replacement part for the cost to lifetime ratio to even out. Each replacement part in that timeframe pushes the value time out further. I'm not convinced it would be cheaper in the long run.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#297

Post by NavinF »

xd1936 wrote: post #228
turtlebits wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be thinking of the Pixelbook Go with the Intel m3? My Pixelbook (from 2018) is an i5, and performs fine.

They're right. I loved my Pixelbook (non-Go), but the Core i5[1] and i7[2] used pretty underpowered 7W CPUs. 1. https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/97461/i... 2. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/95441/i...

Yep, this is why saying "an i5" is meaningless. It covers everything from "weaker than a modern phone" to desktop CPUs that pull 150W and perform as such.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#298

Post by dheera »

IE6 wrote: post #272
dheera wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would people pay that much for a Chromebook, when you could just install Ubuntu and delete all the icons except for Chrome?

Because they want a Chromebook and they don't want Ubuntu with no desktop icons? I'm not sure what you're implying to be honest.

I mean, a desktop with a full-featured OS like Ubuntu (or Windows or Mac or whatever) can do so much more, and that justifies a higher price of the equipment. If I'm paying to have only Chrome and nothing else, I should be getting some kind of huge discount ...

Would you pay more to have a dumb phone that only does calls, than a smart phone?

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#300

Post by adamdusty »

swores wrote: post #282
adamdusty wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not hard for anyone to understand. If you're worried that the OS is hijacking your camera, why would you stop being worried just because you're using the camera.

Because when I'm using my camera I make sure not to do things like walk naked in front of it forgetting that there's a camera there? For other people the thing they don't do while on a video call might be having an affair, or using drugs, or... Your argument seems similar to "why would you care about a microphone spying on you 24/7 if you're willing to sometimes have conversations that might be overheard?" Yes obviou…

The other guy is arguing that you don't have to accept that risk at all if you don't use an OS from a data harvesting company.

I don't care who watches me through my camera, I was just trying to point out that people aren't stupid about the hardware switch. Some just find it ironic that there is a hardware shut off for a camera on a computer operated by Google.

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