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The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

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Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#181

Post by geek_at »

rch wrote: post #113
n0ric wrote: post #43

I'm having a hard time imagining the audience for this product. EDU most likely isn't going to go with this product due to cost (and can get easily complex, imagine trying to juggle all the expansion ports being lost by students), and typical audiences for ChromeOS devices don't always overlap with audiences who want easy repairability (and most likely are purchasing the device for the lack of nuances that other OSes…

Christmas gifts for my parents. I've had them on Chromebooks for the last few years, and my father is a tinkerer (Western Electric in the 70s) who routinely opens up laptops, phones, cameras, etc. for repairs or just because.

I also gave all elderly people a chromebook/box because it's so much easier to manage and much harder to break / make slow

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#182

Post by jeffbee »

binkHN wrote: post #174
jeffbee wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason is all the binary artifacts are peak-optimized for the platform and this yields significant, often 10-20% lower CPU usage than plain vanilla binaries offered by all other Linux distributions. This includes the kernel, which in ChromeOS is built with LLVM with profile-guided optimization. Faster software translates directly to longer battery life. Every other distribution is years behind Google in terms of…

> Every other distribution is years behind Google in terms of tooling. Can you expand on this? Perhaps a URL with more detail?

I'm not sure if there are any single good URLs I can give you. The best way to learn is to read the chromiumos repo and see how they build the image, how they collect and deploy profiles, etc. You can also look at the mailing list of clang-built-linux to see how their kernel is built with clang and how they integrated that with their profile pipeline.

In the end though it is cultural and not technical. Debian will bend over backwards to make sure That One Guy can still install the latest version on his old Centaur CPU, from floppies. ChromeOS is laser-targeted for specific, allow-listed hardware platforms. If you are philosophically committed to the eternal comfort of That One Guy, the Debian way makes more sense. If you just want software that's faster and more secure, ChromeOS has the better way.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#183

Post by nrp »

hyperdimension wrote: post #137
nrp wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google has fairly strict requirements around power consumption. They have a standard test for 10 hours of active use through common use cases, which we were able to meet. For standby, the requirement is around 14 days. I have to double check where we are on the current software and firmware, but we are close to that number. We actually did learn some things about the Intel re-timers through this product development t…

> We actually did learn some things about the Intel re-timers through this product development that let us come up with ways to improve the behavior on the regular 12th Gen Framework Laptops. We are currently developing a firmware update for that that will improve both active and standby battery life. Is this specific to Intel's 12th gen or can it also be ported to the 11th gen? I have an 11th gen Framework and am de…

We do have some learnings that would apply back to 11th Gen that are early in development. We also have a beta firmware for DisplayPort Expansion Cards that improves one area of active/standby power consumption, which applies to both 11th Gen and 12th Gen: https://community.frame.work/t/beta-displayport-expansion-ca...

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#184

Post by qzw »

freedomben wrote: post #94
the_duke wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am (personally) a bit disappointed that you'd work on a Chromebook version first, before tackling AMD or a version with a dedicated GPU. I'll need a new laptop soon, and would really love to see either and ideally both of those. But for the company it's probably a good move. Get help from Google on battery optimisations, open up a new market and hopefully get a sizeable order from Google directly, all without a cra…

I'm not GP, but tackling AMD or a dedicated GPU sounds like a ton more work than Chromebook. Plus Google partnered with them, so presumably helped with some of the work. I would guess this effort didn't really take all that much, but it allowed them to try a new bet that might pay off, and establish a potentially useful partnership. I too would rather a dedicated GPU and/or AMD option, but I care as much for the heal…

Exactly this. Offering AMD or dGPU is a whole other level of engineering, supply chain, and support effort. Google itself may also be good for a few thousand orders, just from all their now orphaned Pixelbook users. And presumably that’s still a tangible amount of sales for a company the size of Framework. Plus they apparently already found some power management improvements that will also apply to all their laptops, just by getting their devices ChromeOS ready. Actually seems like an excellent business decision.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#185

Post by pbronez »

nrp wrote: post #2

I'm happy to answer questions anyone has on this product!

Will this support Linux on ChromeOS (Crostini)?

The ChromeOS doc page "Set Up Linux on your Chromebook" [0] links to a supported models list [1] which does NOT include Framework.

[0] https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9145439?hl=en

[1] https://sites.google.com/a/chromium.org/dev/chromium-os/chro...

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#186

Post by vineyardmike »

n0ric wrote: post #43

I'm having a hard time imagining the audience for this product. EDU most likely isn't going to go with this product due to cost (and can get easily complex, imagine trying to juggle all the expansion ports being lost by students), and typical audiences for ChromeOS devices don't always overlap with audiences who want easy repairability (and most likely are purchasing the device for the lack of nuances that other OSes…

As someone else said, it’s great for gifts. If you’re “the tech guy/gal” in the family, you have to fix people’s broken tech. With this, it’s a chrome book so it should be easy to use, minimal handholding, and if something breaks it’s easy to fix.

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#187

Post by samueldr »

I wonder if it will have proper CCD (Case Closed Debugging)[0] support.

With CCD, you are pretty much free to mess around with the "BIOS" of the machine, without fear of being put in a bad situation.

It also provides a serial terminal to the "AP" (application processor), e.g. available to the OS.

In other words, the Cr50 provides a controlled and user-controlled (but not user-owned) sideband channel to debug the system, even on consumer hardware.

Why user-controlled? Because it requires asserting presence to "Open", which with the design of ChromeOS basically requires being the owner of the device. Why not user-owned? For official ChromeOS devices, AFAIK that firmware cannot be replaced by a user with their own builds.

[0]: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform/ec/+/c...

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#188

Post by nrp »

kilovoltaire wrote: post #34
nrp wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is committed to a minimum of 8 years of security updates. We don't have currently have official support for other OS's, but there is an active community of people bringing other OS's to Chromebooks.

sounds like the page should say "at least eight years" then, instead of "up to eight years"

Correct. We've just updated the blog post with the proper description from Google, which is "automatic updates through June 2030."

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#189

Post by pbronez »

nrp wrote: post #2

I'm happy to answer questions anyone has on this product!

Can you provide more information about why the fingerprint module was excluded [0]?

I've grown to rely on Windows Hello / Mac FaceID. It's disappointing not to have a bio metric option.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32926574

Re: The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition

#190

Post by ryukafalz »

treffer wrote: post #169
nrp wrote: post #2

I'm happy to answer questions anyone has on this product!

I have a 11th gen frame.work. 1. Could I swap mainboards to upgrade the 11th gen framework to the chromebook version? 2. Is the coreboot chip flashable with custom firmware? / Is the boot process locked? This might well be the mainboard I've been waiting for. Congratulations on shipping this!

Also curious about this. If the mainboards are compatible (especially if they’re usable outside the laptop like the current ones are) this is very interesting.
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