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President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

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Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#161

A few months ago analysts were warning of impending collapse of Russia's troops due to poor supplies and poor morale. Russian cheerleaders on HN were doubting it as Western propaganda saying it had been declared for months and not materialized. Well it materialized in the collapse of the Kharkiv front over a week so there's that. In all, I don't think the mobilization is likely to matter. The Russian problem is bad s…

> In all, I don't think the mobilization is likely to matter

Oh it matters. More poorly trained and equipped cannon fodder means more dead and more prisoners. The influx of caskets into previously less impacted areas in Russia might start to impact the general population more - that's how the USSR had to pull out of Afghanistan.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't Ukraine have a lot more to lose over time? Russia can just flatten the terrain, or ultimately nuke. The reverse isn't possible.

It seems that way to me. I'm not sure what the western forces game plan is and i'm not sure they actually want to help Ukraine too much, I think they are walking the fine line of wanting to hurt Russia enough and see what happens, but they don't want to truly arm Ukraine because if Russia really loses, they might just nuke.

Your statements are not backed up with either public communication or a lack of monetary support. In fact, the US just sent over a billion more $ in military aid. Think again.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#163

This is really going to screw Russia for generations. Every young Russian I know has either already left, plans to leave, or has to stay but hates their leader. You don't get your country to turn into a superpower by losing the most educated and skilled of the young generations. I only hope as things get more desperate he doesn't feel trapped lash out with the nukes.

In every country there are people who are nationalistic and think withint that framework and in every country there are people who want to be part of the global community of engineers/artists/scientists/professionals etc. and it is as if the nationalistic ones and their political fractions see the others as human resources that they want and have right to use in their ideological goals.

In Iran, in Turkey, in the USA, in Hungary, in France, in South Africa, in Russia, in the UK there are people who all they want is a decent life for the work they do and there are people who want to make America Great again, show Greeks that Turks are the boss or show Turks that Greeks are the superior culture that one day will rise and take back Istanbul, show EU that they are the man, revive the French greatness, preserve British ways against EU, screw the liberals, make the Vegans cry, keep the women in line, stop Netflix making the youth gay, preserve the Islam in a specific way, preserve christian values etc.

It's almost as if there are class wars everywhere but those in power fight their local class wars through external fights. That's why it almost feels like Brexiteers, MAGA, le Pen, Putin, the guy in Brazil or Philippines are all coordinated.

It's bizarre and I don't see anything special about Russia TBH. It's just that they seem to be ahead of the west in the direction the world is headed.

You know people who disapprove Putin and try to run away from Russia but unfortunately Putin continues to enjoy very high approval ratings[0].

[0] https://twitter.com/grkdirik/status/1572242924460556288/phot...

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#164

Can someone Russian explain what on earth they are thinking? Russia appears to have 10x the casualties as Ukraine, soldiers that doesn't really want to fight, and are currently losing. Yet the leaders think it is a good idea to keep the war going? To me it seems that with the material Ukraine is receiving from the West they will easily retake all territory Russia has occupied.

>Russia appears to have 10x the casualties as Ukraine Reliable source? That isn't what I read anywhere from not-so-partial sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrain...

Officials say there are close to 6k dead. Mobilization wants 300k recruits. This doesn't add up at all.

Not sure about 10x casualties as Ukraine, but I'm sure it's 10x of what they're saying

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russians are very inconsistent in their lying. On one hand they say they are already fighting NATO troops, and on the other hand they say that NATO needs to stay away else they will use all means possible. I was in favour that NATO would secure the skies, but that is now too late I guess. Ukraine didn't even receive the latest and best equipment such as battle tanks. Once they receive those (I'm confident they will),…

> I was in favour that NATO would secure the skies 'Securing' skies is a term that has been repeated a lot but in practice it means potentially shooting down Russian aircrafts to 'secure' a corridor. This would mean a NATO member doing an act of war against Russia _without_ the purpose of defending a NATO member state. The main argument is where do you draw the line? Why did NATO not provide air support for Georgia i…

Just because we closed our eyes in the past doesn't mean we need to continue doing that. It's the straw that breaks the camels back.

Shooting down Russian airplanes over Ukrainian territory when they are literally bombing Ukraine is not "an act of war against Russia". That's a bit of a far stretch don't you think?

If NATO bombs Belarus and Russian airplanes defend, you can hardly call that "Russian war against NATO".

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia remains a nuclear power. NATO should be and is careful. I agree they know they can’t win but they now need an exit ramp. That’s what I personally read in their posture. It would probably be wise to give them one.

Who is "they" in this dialectic? The Russian people definitely deserves a future. They could even win freedom from corruption, also win democracy, and even pluralism, thanks to the outcome of this war. They deserve no less. Vladimir and his cronies deserves a hefty wake-up call...

russian people should do something about it then. Iron curtain didnt fell on it own, there were years of strikes involving bloody clashes with military.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Polish_protests

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_1976_protests

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Lublin_strikes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacification_of_Wujek

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerzy_Popie%C5%82uszko#Assassi...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Polish_strikes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidarity_(Polish_trade_union...

Similar things were happening in Czechoslovakia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_Revolution and other European countries under Soviet occupation.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#167
post #58

Is there any scenario from this point onwards, any at all that results in Russia coming out stronger once the smoke clears? Because I can't see any. Seems to me like the Russian govt are now in a situation where they have no choice but to see this thing through just to try and save face.

I am not a historian, so this post is just describing my own impression. I may be wrong, but this is at least how I perceived the historical events.

The past 10-20 years have been a tragedy for the relationship between Russia and Europe, and a failure from Putin to take advantage of the goodwill that existed after the fall of the Soviet Union.

Many European countries actually wanted a close relationship with Russia, as they (naively) thought that it was moving in a democratic direction. Lots of companies started offices in Russia and countries like Germany trusted Russia enough to supply them with gas. They will probably not do that again unless they have alternative suppliers.

There were of course some negative rhetorics from old school politicians, and Europe were still close allies with US. But the general hope was that Russia was moving closer to Europe and that in time they could perhaps even join the EU to create a new political and economical power.

Unfortunately Putin decided to go in the opposite direction and trying to rebuild the old empire. Oligarks made it difficult to do business and the political rhetorics made "the west" into an enemy.

The only way I see Russia coming out of this stronger, is if the pressure from the people is high enough to let a real democratic election vote in a new leadership that can reduce corruption. This could start repairing foreign relations which would improve the economic situation. Maybe we could get back to the optimism we had 15-20 years ago.

This is probably not likely to happen in the short term.

The only "upside" of this war is that due to the dependency on gas from Russia, Europe will accelerate the process of switching to greener energy. Windmills, solar power and maybe even nuclear power plants. This may be remembered in history as the turning point in the reduction of global warning, that came with a high human cost.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#168

Stupid question, but what does Putin want exactly? what will end the war?

Wendover Productions "Why Russia Is Invading Ukraine" on YouTube provides some good info. Some reasons include: - They need to secure energy sources (natural gas) to ensure a future for their economy. Ukraine was threatening this business by beginning to get funding from Western companies to develop their natural gas industry - Geographically, losing Ukraine to NATO/the West would result in compromised defensive line…

And they screwed up big time on all counts lmao

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#169

I really hope the russian/kreml/putin war against Ukraine will end in a epic failure for them. I also hope that frozen russian assets in west can be confiscated to build up Ukraine again, russia has to be accountable and pay for all madness and horrific things they have done.

Oh yeah, super good idea. We had fantastic experience with humiliated nations before. It worked so well for Germany after WW1 /s FACT: the end of this war must be positive for the Russian people, no matter whether Russia loses or wins the military operation. Putin came to power because the West didnt help the former Soviet republics. If Russia is left alone humiliated again then we will have the next anti-western sys…

> the end of this war must be positive for the Russian people, no matter whether Russia loses or wins the military operation.

I can see a plausible end that avoids ridicule on either side:

- West will maintain that Putin meant to destroy Ukraine. So, limiting him to the new status-quo for Luhansk and Donetsk (whatever that would be) is a success.

- Putin will claim that the target of the "military operation" was to make Luhansk and Donetsk safe for the Russian-speaking population there. The new status-quo provides for that. So the operation was a success.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#170
post #5

It’s hard to see where this ends; should things move toward weakening of the Russian government will he go without attempting to escalate his way out of domestic danger? I think mobilisation and moving toward declaring the special operation a war (more mobilisation) could be the beginnings of that slippery slope.

Putin is "committed" so to speak, so this is just following his current strategy through to its conclusion: force the West to give up on Ukraine or accept massive escalation. The fundamental question is - is NATO committed enough to the Ukraine cause to demolish Europe? Probably not. Everyone talking about Russia being "already defeated" knows little of the Russian capacity for misery. Napoleon learned the hard way.…

Russia needs to not do the same: its plays so far have assumed that the US and Europe are not willing to sacrifice anything to help Ukraine, which has turned out to be false. It also remains to be seen whether Russians ability to suffer terrible conditions translates to effectiveness in an offensive war (especially worth considering that Ukraine's most recent offensive resulted in a rout of some of Russia's most elite soldiers). With the US specifically, it has a capability of sustaining an unpopular war where american soldiers are dying for a suprisingly long time. This is a war where no US soldiers are dying and there's is both tremendous popular and political support for continuing to support Ukraine from both sides of the political spectrum (which is getting very rare. Yes there are some voices spouting Russian propaganda but they seem to have little sway).
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