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Geofencing Will Enable L5

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Re: Geofencing Will Enable L5

#61

Post by ben_w »

colechristensen wrote: post #21

L5 is impossible by this definition: >“operating the vehicle on-road anywhere that a typically skilled human driver can reasonably operate a conventional vehicle.” People who think otherwise must have spent their entire lives in metro areas with little to no weather. Moderate amounts of snow will certainly make L5 driving impossible until we have AI where reasonable people start thinking about giving civil rights to.

> Moderate amounts of snow will certainly make L5 driving impossible until we have AI where reasonable people start thinking about giving civil rights to.

Why do you believe that? I don't see how any adverse weather requires more personhood than Stable Diffusion needs to paint — probably zero.

Re: Geofencing Will Enable L5

#62

Post by Akronymus »

alex_young wrote: post #29

So, to limit our problem a bit, let's create a nice little geofence around our robot cars. We'll limit the physical environment changes in this area, build in some barriers, limit pedestrian traffic, protect wildlife crossings, maybe build in some weather protection systems so our robots don't have to drive on the snow. Why stop there? Let's build a special track for these robots since tires are pretty bad in terms o…

> maybe add in some turnstiles.

turnstiles are pretty annoying and don't actually help that much, if at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq-X25pH1XQ

Re: Geofencing Will Enable L5

#63

Post by Akronymus »

sottol wrote: post #52
space_fountain wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well without schedules or defined routes

Weird, schedules and defined routes plus some walking or biking used to work for many people. But that requires different attitudes.

You can do without schedules if they are frequent enough (as in, people don't have to check the schedule)

This is one thing that seems to be severly lacking in the US, afaict.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muPcHs-E4qc

Re: Geofencing Will Enable L5

#64

Post by rcxdude »

sottol wrote: post #52
space_fountain wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well without schedules or defined routes

Weird, schedules and defined routes plus some walking or biking used to work for many people. But that requires different attitudes.

It also requires a certain amount of traffic on those defined routes.

Re: Geofencing Will Enable L5

#65

Post by rcxdude »

xani_ wrote: post #31
seagullrific wrote: post #25

Battery-powered scooters are heavily geofenced in the cities I've used them in. Ride down one street perfectly fine. Cross into an adjacent park, the brakes go on, the motor is disabled or limited, and an alarm might sound. As a solution, it's maybe missing the resolution of 1m vs about 5m at the moment. This is exactly what's needed, but instead of limiting virtually harmless products like scooters, all cars should…

People don't crash because of speeding, people crash coz they drive like idiots

In general speed limits are more constrained by limiting the consequences of the crashes that do happen, not limiting the number of crashes.

Re: Geofencing Will Enable L5

#66

Post by pjc50 »

jmoak3 wrote: post #51
NegativeLatency wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty clear at this point that self driving and electric are here to save the car/road building industry not society. Makes me so frustrated that I have to drive/own a car to be a "full" citizen in the US, I really hope other options start to become more viable/mainstream in my lifetime. (As I'm sure someone will love to point out, yes there are things that cars are good at, rural areas etc, but there are lots of wa…

If self driving cars are completed you can kiss human scale urbanism and suburbanism goodbye. 2 hour commutes from the woods will become normalized IMO

Why stop there? The only limit is the recharge range of the car, which is not consumed by being stuck in traffic. If you can nap during the commute, why not extend it to three or four hours?

Many places make it illegal to live in your car - but only while parked. What about living in your car while stuck in a traffic jam?

Re: Geofencing Will Enable L5

#67

Post by im3w1l »

ben_w wrote: post #60
im3w1l wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the electricity catastrophe, tolerance for smug environmentalists is at an all time low. Your "congratulations" is grating. Trains are unable to handle last mile goods-transportation. Just like people like having power in their outlet, they like having food in their grocery stores and if mess that one up then their will be unrest the likes of which have not been seen in generations.

What, and where, is this electricity catastrophe? There's a gas supply problem right now in Europe, but I've not heard anything about an electricity supply problem except where the gas prices are a major part of that.

California has regular issues too. They narrowly avoided rolling blackouts just a few weeks ago. They did briefly shut off power to some customers. And the governor had to beg people to turn up the thermostat.

Re: Geofencing Will Enable L5

#68

Post by knorker »

BobbyJo wrote: post #15
knorker wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That takes away the societal benefits of L5, though. That's one of the main problems with self driving in general. It's a completely different system if 99% are self driving instead of 100%. L5 is about transport, where everything can be 10-100x more efficient if everone is FSD. But if even 1% decide to take the wheel then it's instant gridlock everywhere. If you want to drive, and have fun, we'll have racetracks for…

> L5 is about transport, where everything can be 10-100x more efficient if everyone is FSD. But if even 1% decide to take the wheel then it's instant gridlock everywhere. If that were true we'd never get to L5. We'd need a hard switch over before L5 was deployable, and L5 needs to be deployable before there would ever be a hard switch over. Deadlock. The hard truth is, self-driving is going to have to share the road…

No, L5 can coexist with manual driving. It's just that the societal (as opposed to individual) benefits mostly kick in at 100%.

But also you can just say some streets are for FSD only. Some neighbourhoods.

Similar things are already rolling out as a soft barrier for the worst polluting cars. E.g. London's ULEZ. And other places ban studded tires, sometimes by individual streets.

You could argue "but I want to be able to actually stop on ice patches, so I want studded tires". And the answer is "fine, but then you can't drive your car on these specific areas". And likely the areas will expand.

It's like "sometimes I want to roar with my obnoxious harley". Hopefully in the future the answer is "that's fine, but if you do that in a city we'll throw you in jail… and then fire you from a canon into the sun", because it's not your freedom to wake up 50'000 people just to have some fun.

Re: Geofencing Will Enable L5

#69

Post by knorker »

JohnFen wrote: post #48
TurningCanadian wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To complete the analogy, you'd have to want to ride your horse on a country road every so often in a way that breaks the law (original comment wanted to break the speed limit). Maybe you want to ride on private roads or something like that.

No, I'm not talking about wanting to break the law. I'm talking about wanting to drive.

You're missing the main point though. It's not a choice of driving vs being driven. It's a choice of automated driving to get to a place vs being completely gridlocked with manual driving.

It's established fact that "just add more lanes" doesn't actually help.

Re: Geofencing Will Enable L5

#70

Post by hallway_monitor »

xani_ wrote: post #33
knorker wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That takes away the societal benefits of L5, though. That's one of the main problems with self driving in general. It's a completely different system if 99% are self driving instead of 100%. L5 is about transport, where everything can be 10-100x more efficient if everone is FSD. But if even 1% decide to take the wheel then it's instant gridlock everywhere. If you want to drive, and have fun, we'll have racetracks for…

> If you want to drive, and have fun, we'll have racetracks for that. I wonder if someone made a research about likeness of reckless driving vs closeness to race track. Like, if it was $5 to have a lap nearby (as in "not have to reserve day to go to track and have a track day") I wonder how less of dumbass driving we'd had on the streets...

I drove in rallycross (dirt) this past weekend and also drive autocross on pavement. You can use your normal everyday car and it's about $50 for the day. If you like to drive fast go check out your local club, they love new drivers.
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