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Geofencing Will Enable L5

semiengineering.com

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Re: Geofencing Will Enable L5

#51

Post by jmoak3 »

NegativeLatency wrote: post #38
alex_young wrote: post #29

So, to limit our problem a bit, let's create a nice little geofence around our robot cars. We'll limit the physical environment changes in this area, build in some barriers, limit pedestrian traffic, protect wildlife crossings, maybe build in some weather protection systems so our robots don't have to drive on the snow. Why stop there? Let's build a special track for these robots since tires are pretty bad in terms o…

Pretty clear at this point that self driving and electric are here to save the car/road building industry not society. Makes me so frustrated that I have to drive/own a car to be a "full" citizen in the US, I really hope other options start to become more viable/mainstream in my lifetime. (As I'm sure someone will love to point out, yes there are things that cars are good at, rural areas etc, but there are lots of wa…

If self driving cars are completed you can kiss human scale urbanism and suburbanism goodbye. 2 hour commutes from the woods will become normalized IMO

Re: Geofencing Will Enable L5

#53

Post by waste_monk »

JohnFen wrote: post #48
TurningCanadian wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To complete the analogy, you'd have to want to ride your horse on a country road every so often in a way that breaks the law (original comment wanted to break the speed limit). Maybe you want to ride on private roads or something like that.

No, I'm not talking about wanting to break the law. I'm talking about wanting to drive.

That's the problem though, in a fully optimised L5 FSD environment you would need to ban human drivers.

If your road and traffic infrastructure assumes no humans, you can do all sorts of neat stuff like have cars driving practically bumper-to-bumper for drafting, get rid of traffic lights / stop signs / etc. and have the cars communicate directly with each other to organise crossing busy intersections at close to full speed [1], and so on.

A single human driver in that kind of system would make every vehicle around them slow down and defer to the human driver's unpredictable behaviour and incredibly slow (compared to a computer) reflexes, with butterfly effects over a much wider geographic area... assuming the infrastructure for you to drive safely still exists.

Personally I don't think we'll ever get there... way too much infrastructure required, and a singly badly maintained car or bad actor could cause disproportionate amounts of havoc.

[1] like this https://youtu.be/ZhGduew_VjQ - the first ~30 seconds or so is the sort of thing you'd expect to see in a L5 FSD exclusive system... and then the last few seconds are what you'd expect to see when you suddenly add a human driver to the mix.

Re: Geofencing Will Enable L5

#54

Post by space_fountain »

sottol wrote: post #52
space_fountain wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well without schedules or defined routes

Weird, schedules and defined routes plus some walking or biking used to work for many people. But that requires different attitudes.

I think that’s fair, but we do sort of have to live in the real world. Do you have a theory of how we convince people to go back to that? Personally I think with the future we can do better, but idk

Re: Geofencing Will Enable L5

#55

Post by tdeck »

codesnik wrote: post #42
space_fountain wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trains are a great solution to move loads of people between population centers and they’re an ok solution to moving loads of people downtown. They do start to suffer when you want to move people between basically random points in a city. I am all on board for fully automated micro trains though

so, trams?

I think they're describing something more like a PRT system:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_rapid_transit

Re: Geofencing Will Enable L5

#57

Post by im3w1l »

alex_young wrote: post #29

So, to limit our problem a bit, let's create a nice little geofence around our robot cars. We'll limit the physical environment changes in this area, build in some barriers, limit pedestrian traffic, protect wildlife crossings, maybe build in some weather protection systems so our robots don't have to drive on the snow. Why stop there? Let's build a special track for these robots since tires are pretty bad in terms o…

With the electricity catastrophe, tolerance for smug environmentalists is at an all time low. Your "congratulations" is grating.

Trains are unable to handle last mile goods-transportation. Just like people like having power in their outlet, they like having food in their grocery stores and if mess that one up then their will be unrest the likes of which have not been seen in generations.

Re: Geofencing Will Enable L5

#58

Post by Ekaros »

xnx wrote: post #16
narrator wrote: post #9

One thing that bugs me about L5 is the designers of the spec think it's awesome that L5 takes the steering wheel away. Why? It seems like a downgrade. I'd never buy an L5 car because sometimes I want to drive, and break the speed limit a little.

Same reason you don't directly control the elevator going up and down.

Actually you could. But the controls are at the top of elevator and you need to set it to specific mode.

Re: Geofencing Will Enable L5

#59

Post by ben_w »

space_fountain wrote: post #54
sottol wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird, schedules and defined routes plus some walking or biking used to work for many people. But that requires different attitudes.

I think that’s fair, but we do sort of have to live in the real world. Do you have a theory of how we convince people to go back to that? Personally I think with the future we can do better, but idk

Here in Berlin I don't think people really stopped doing this. The tram line going past my apartment has vehicles every 5 minutes in the weekday daytime, so that probably helps.

Re: Geofencing Will Enable L5

#60

Post by ben_w »

im3w1l wrote: post #57
alex_young wrote: post #29

So, to limit our problem a bit, let's create a nice little geofence around our robot cars. We'll limit the physical environment changes in this area, build in some barriers, limit pedestrian traffic, protect wildlife crossings, maybe build in some weather protection systems so our robots don't have to drive on the snow. Why stop there? Let's build a special track for these robots since tires are pretty bad in terms o…

With the electricity catastrophe, tolerance for smug environmentalists is at an all time low. Your "congratulations" is grating. Trains are unable to handle last mile goods-transportation. Just like people like having power in their outlet, they like having food in their grocery stores and if mess that one up then their will be unrest the likes of which have not been seen in generations.

What, and where, is this electricity catastrophe? There's a gas supply problem right now in Europe, but I've not heard anything about an electricity supply problem except where the gas prices are a major part of that.
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