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Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

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Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#541

Post by dkonofalski »

ornornor wrote: post #495
dkonofalski wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an incredibly ignorant statement. Pairing parts with the SOC is a security feature. The intent is to increase security with the side-effect being a more difficult repair process. You're acting like they did it with the purpose of trying to hinder self-repair. If that was the case, they wouldn't be taking any measures to make self-repair easier.

> You're acting like they did it with the purpose of trying to hinder self-repair. That’s certainly one interpretation. What’s the security rationale behind disabling functions if you don’t pair the phone’s replacement glass panel ? Or if you take a genuine battery from another phone (since Apple doesn’t sell them for most models directly) and put it in your phone? It’s a genuine battery but it’ll nag you and disable…

Both of those questions are easily answerable with a simple Google search.

1. >disabling functions if you don’t pair the phone’s replacement glass panel?

That's not what's happening. The "glass panel", as you put it, is the same part as the FaceID and TouchID sensors. They're cryptographically paired so that someone doesn't replace that part with a compromised sensor that would allow them access to the device. If you're referring to the back glass, then it needs to be paired to the hardware only on newer devices because of the Magsafe functionality and the fact that the cameras are built into the back. Compromising the back panel could allow an attacker access to any photos taken with the camera or, in some cases, access to data on the phone via the Magsafe connection.

2. >take a genuine battery from another phone (since Apple doesn’t sell them for most models directly) and put it in your phone

The only functionality that's disabled when this happens is the health measurement of the battery because there's no way to tell if the battery being installed is brand new unless the chain of trust for the hardware is intact. It doesn't nag you at all. It simply says on the battery health screen that the battery that's installed can't be verified. It doesn't affect the usage of the phone at all outside of the battery health display.

You're either being disingenuous or just outright lying here.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#542

Post by dkonofalski »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #459
dkonofalski wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, anecdotally, I've had every other iPhone since the original and use it daily and have never had it break or otherwise needed to replace/repair it. People who use terms like "rigors of daily use" typically always mean wanton abuse.

The fact that yours has never broken, as opposed to shattering the screen once or twice, could just be luck. Which is not exactly an argument about multiple breaks per year, but it's relevant.

Absolutely, and I've said as much in earlier replies. My point is that the iPhone is one of the most durable phones on the market and easily handles daily wear and tear. The issue is that most people who say things like that, though, seem to think that "daily wear and tear" means constantly and regularly dropping your phone, corner first, on concrete. Physics has its limits.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#543

Post by kaba0 »

newtritious wrote: post #537
kaba0 wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know, is a paper clip AI evil of not? I think your problem is anthropomorphizing a non-human entity — companies after a certain size are simply trying to maximize profits at all costs. It is just so happens that people like to look at companies in a human way and thus playing “good” has a monetary advantage. For a more direct example look at all the companies putting up pro-LGBT flags.

> companies after a certain size are simply trying to maximize profits at all costs. This is an ideological claim that doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. Obviously if you hold this as an axiom, you won’t be able to see that companies are made up of people. Are you aware that Tim Cook is gay? Could it be that his personal experience has something to do with Apple supporting gay rights? If your claim has any truth, then all…

Aren’t they? Most user-facing companies did actually put up banners like that.

Of course it is not a requirement if only other companies are your clients, here public opinion doesn’t have direct monetary correlation.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#544

Post by newtritious »

_V_ wrote: post #538
newtritious wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you knew it’s not the general case, and yet you said it anyway.

In my location it is a general case. What is your point?

Is it? That honestly doesn’t seem remotely credible.

You are claiming that there is a ‘location’ where Apple themselves in general need to send off a phone for a battery replacement, one of the most common repairs.

Which Apple Store was that? Where is it located? We can easily enough ask them what the general turnaround time for a battery replacement is.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#545

Post by Nextgrid »

threeseed wrote: post #491
kramerger wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple devices weren't made difficult to repair because Apple actively despised repairers. IIRC the front panel uses DRM to stop unauthorized screen replacement.

Which is to make the device secure for users who are Apple's highest priority. It's amazing to me that developers, resellers etc seem to forget this.

"Security" is an excuse that Apple (and other anti-repair companies) love to use and it disappoints me to see people fall for it on a technical forum like this one.

It is debatable whether the devices that are restricted have any security impact to begin with (the fingerprint or face recognition sensors should just be untrusted input devices with the actual comparison happening inside the secure element of the CPU - compromising this device wouldn't give you anything you don't already have), but either way, even if there was a security impact, you can always let the user choose by giving them the (per-device) keys to override said security.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#546

Post by newtritious »

kaba0 wrote: post #543
newtritious wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> companies after a certain size are simply trying to maximize profits at all costs. This is an ideological claim that doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. Obviously if you hold this as an axiom, you won’t be able to see that companies are made up of people. Are you aware that Tim Cook is gay? Could it be that his personal experience has something to do with Apple supporting gay rights? If your claim has any truth, then all…

Aren’t they? Most user-facing companies did actually put up banners like that. Of course it is not a requirement if only other companies are your clients, here public opinion doesn’t have direct monetary correlation.

Did they? I’ve hardly ever seen such banners. Only reporting on them.

But in any case, there is no point in further discussion with you since you have stated your ideology.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#547

Post by Nextgrid »

kaba0 wrote: post #480
drekipus wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like some folks downplay the amount of engineering that goes into the iPhone, There's a huge amount of engineering that goes into making cars as well, but independent mechanic can and do thankfully exist. The automobile market is going a similar direction to Apple and it's considered a bad thing by many. Apple do not want to sell you spare parts if they can sell you a new yearly model phone instead. Imagine…

> independent mechanic can and do thankfully exist. Yet they can’t and are not expected to do anything when the engine itself fails, which can more realistically be compared to a mobile phone in terms of (useful) miniaturization, increase of precision, etc. This is the price of the orders of magnitude more efficient operation compared to the first engines, increased complexity. It’s a tradeoff (and I would say it is…

You can take apart and rebuild an engine just fine. In fact most auto manufacturers (still) sell individual parts. You don't scrap an entire engine because a camshaft, injector or VVT actuator fails. Even in case of catastrophic timing belt/chain failure, it can be repaired, though not always economically viable.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#548

Post by _V_ »

newtritious wrote: post #544
_V_ wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my location it is a general case. What is your point?

Is it? That honestly doesn’t seem remotely credible. You are claiming that there is a ‘location’ where Apple themselves in general need to send off a phone for a battery replacement, one of the most common repairs. Which Apple Store was that? Where is it located? We can easily enough ask them what the general turnaround time for a battery replacement is.

Yes, it is. For both batteries and displays - across many different ocasions over the years. Unfortunately. That's why I let company I work for to buy me some nice repair equipment so I can atleast extract the data & do some things by myself.

Are you an actual Apple employee with some power to help me (or help the situation in general)? If so I'd be really glad and more than willing to share all my information with you! Let me know. We buy Apple products worth roughly ~$10-30k every year depending on the stuff we are getting so I'm afraid that we are not that big to be interesting by ourselves but we are certainly bigger than 3 iPhones a year :-)

I'd be the first person to actually celebrate having some official way to either repair my stuff or at the very least a way to get genuine parts without having to jump through multiple artificial hoops designed just to piss me off.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#549

Post by drekipus »

kergonath wrote: post #483
drekipus wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like some folks downplay the amount of engineering that goes into the iPhone, There's a huge amount of engineering that goes into making cars as well, but independent mechanic can and do thankfully exist. The automobile market is going a similar direction to Apple and it's considered a bad thing by many. Apple do not want to sell you spare parts if they can sell you a new yearly model phone instead. Imagine…

> There's a huge amount of engineering that goes into making cars as well, but independent mechanic can and do thankfully exist. But then, so do independent phone repair shops.

Yes, which is what right to repair is all about.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#550

Post by rTX5CMRXIfFG »

ImprobableTruth wrote: post #514
rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Err… it doesn’t have to be price controls? It could be as simple as an investigation to their pricing strategy and seeing whether the markup is obscene or not. Of course what is obscene is relative, but that’s why you investigate, so that you can see abuse on a case-to-case basis. Also, how is this level of regulatory inspection invasive? The architectural tight integration almost guarantees that the device manufactu…

Saying certain prices are obscene is just an ill-defined price ceiling i.e. a form of price control.

Now that is moving the goalpost, and hard. A senate inquiry or a class action suit (that Apple doesn’t have to lose by the way) is not how “price control” is defined, and even if such cases swing in the way of consumers, there’s no general rule that specifies how much Apple should lower their service pricing.
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