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React I love you, but you're bringing me down

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Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#251

Post by azemetre »

sergiotapia wrote: post #60

Since quitting React I've been happier with my day to day. Phoenix Liveview came in clutch and showed me I don't have to put up with these kinds of self-inflicted problems. If you're tired of React and the npm lunacy, I recommend you take a dip into Elixir and Phoenix Liveview. Take it for a spin, see how much better it is for you and your users. It's _sane_. You don't have to "split the context" anymore. xD

What are some resources (book or courses or videos or blogs) you'd recommend for learning Elixir and Phoenix?

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#252

Post by erikpukinskis »

pier25 wrote: post #99
nonethewiser wrote: post #46

I must be the only person in the world who likes class components in React. Sure, it's often overkill and a functional component does the same thing with less code. Use a functional component in these cases. But if you're doing something more complicated then stop treating class components like the fucking devil. They have their place.

I totally agree. I actually stopped using React around the time hooks were announced. In retrospect it's still not clear if hooks were even a good idea. Changing the core methodology of a project used by millions of developers at the time was extremely irresponsible. They basically made obsolete all React educational resources overnight. I'm sure people making money by producing React educational content were very ha…

Just for the opposite perspective, I started using React when hooks came out and I love them. I can write the classes, I often have to for job interviews, but I think they’re a messy abstraction.

Hooks just match the way the React runtime works. Classes are just way easier to do weird bad stuff with. I’m not sure I would ever choose React if it was still class based. I’d use Ember probably which gives you more with the class-oriented API. Without the simplified control flow of hooks, I don’t see what React even offers over Ember or Vue.

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#253

Post by mejutoco »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #43
mejutoco wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But hooks need to be named "useX" and have restrictions on where to be called (that a program detects). While they are of js clearly they are not "normal" js functions either. While I use hooks without problem, I also feel like it is an invented mini-language with a lot of extra quirks. Maybe the problem is js does not map elegantly to some of these functional concepts without a good type system.

Hooks don’t actually need to be named “useX”. That’s the convention, and the React team provides a lint rule that enforces it, but you can name your hooks whatever you want and it’ll work fine. I’m not what sure what you mean by not “normal” JS functions, though? They’re an API provided by a framework, and — like all APIs — they have specific constraints that govern how they’re used.

Absolutely correct. I stand corrected. There is also a lint rule (the program I was refering to) to check that hooks are not called in some wrong places IIRC. Those lint rules are the default for create react app.

To each their own. Although I use react and hooks, for my taste the hooks api is not very clean. All these are implicit not explicit and without linting they can easily result in runtime errors. But maybe I am spoiled by Elm ;)

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#254

Post by ghayes »

chrisco255 wrote: post #221
azemetre wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hooks are executed in order as they are defined, isn't that a fundamentally broken design in regards to language spec? I don't have an opinion, just generally curious because it feels very odd that the order of my functions matter.

It only matters that the order not change dynamically between renders. This probably could have been avoided if react required a unique key per hook, but I think for brevity it's a decent trade-off.

For the life of me, I can't understand why they didn't go the route of "add an id to your hook." It would solve one of the two big gripes people have with hooks.

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#255

Post by mmis1000 »

gherkinnn wrote: post #236
mmis1000 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think hook themselves are a bad thing. But the way react implements hook probably is. The react team invented their hook format the suite themselves the most, but that probably isn't for other. Vue 3 also has hook now. But none of these defects in the article exist. In vue. To use some value in a effect, you just use it and it is tracked. If you need to clear up your code. You cut some code into a useXxx func…

Vue 1.x was great, v2 lost its way, and Vue 3 with the composition API looks fantastic on paper. (I haven’t used it in any meaningful way) I’m even more impressed with the extended Vue ecosystem like Vite, Vitest.

I used it in a few project. And it reduces the code by a lot.

For example. To make a mutex to prevent duplicate submit of form. You use need to declare a instance field and wraps the code that do the submit. That alone is 3 lines of code but don't even include error handling.

But now I sealed it into a one line hook

    const wrap = useMutex()
    const submit = wrap(async () = { … })
And then the submit can't run in parallel now.

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#256

Post by hnuser847 »

> Dear React.js,

> We've been together for almost 10 years. We've come a long way. But things are getting out of hand. We need to talk.

> It's embarrassing, I know. Nobody wants to have that conversation. So instead, I'll say it in songs.

Am I the only that finds this open letter format extremely cringey? I almost didn't want to read the article after that intro. The content was excellent otherwise.

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#257

Post by sergiotapia »

azemetre wrote: post #251
sergiotapia wrote: post #60

Since quitting React I've been happier with my day to day. Phoenix Liveview came in clutch and showed me I don't have to put up with these kinds of self-inflicted problems. If you're tired of React and the npm lunacy, I recommend you take a dip into Elixir and Phoenix Liveview. Take it for a spin, see how much better it is for you and your users. It's _sane_. You don't have to "split the context" anymore. xD

What are some resources (book or courses or videos or blogs) you'd recommend for learning Elixir and Phoenix?

Easily these three courses: https://pragmaticstudio.com/

Phoenix Liveview, Elixir & OTP, and Full-stack Graphql with Phoenix.

Best way to learn Liveview.

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#258

Post by jrochkind1 »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #243
dpweb wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to select a good framework and coming from long before react, having a tough time finding why shouldn't use just custom elements with no framework. Which is already built in. customElements.define('my-element', class MyElement extends HTMLElement { ... }) I can manage state within the component, app state in window.state. Coding up a simple reactivity is really pretty straight forward. Now, for this featur…

If we’re talking about class-based components then I agree with you. React doesn’t do much… maybe some performance benefits, and maybe you can avoid some complex DOM manipulation here and there, but with the extra abstraction required that all might be a wash. But with functional components I think React gives you something substantially more debuggable than an object instance with random method calls that manipulate…

I'm not sure if I'm following, are you saying that class-based components (whether React or not) could be characterized as "an object instance with random method calls that manipulate the DOM", and thus React functional components offer an advantage to them?

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#259

Post by krnsi »

azemetre wrote: post #251
sergiotapia wrote: post #60

Since quitting React I've been happier with my day to day. Phoenix Liveview came in clutch and showed me I don't have to put up with these kinds of self-inflicted problems. If you're tired of React and the npm lunacy, I recommend you take a dip into Elixir and Phoenix Liveview. Take it for a spin, see how much better it is for you and your users. It's _sane_. You don't have to "split the context" anymore. xD

What are some resources (book or courses or videos or blogs) you'd recommend for learning Elixir and Phoenix?

Better be fast: https://www.humblebundle.com/books/elixir-programming-pragma...

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#260

Post by engineeringwoke »

nightski wrote: post #219
ferdowsi wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny that this whole hooks mess could have probably been better resolved with investment in developing optimization patches for v8 rather than attempting to "fix" React

It would be funny if it were true. Hooks were made for composable behavior for components.

How would Facebook convince the community to dogfood their new API without some marketing buzz? It's pretty obvious that V8 has trouble optimizing changes to object properties because of the design of the spec, and they were also pretty open about it in the blogs where hooks were introduced. I think it's also clear that useEffect is harder to grok than it's lifecycle equivalents, so there might be other things at play than composability.

It's also a bit funny that certain kinds of people can just brush off these things with some non-sequitur on a message board when there are almost always bigger things at play.

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