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React I love you, but you're bringing me down

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Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#241

Post by addicted »

pier25 wrote: post #103
jitl wrote: post #11

Maybe I’m a React apologist, but this list of complaints seems mostly self-inflicted. > Form libraries are portly maintained or documented The two-way data binding in Svelte saves ~4 lines of reusable hook function but doesn’t come close to covering defaults, validation, errors, dependent fields etc - all of that is essential complexity. Write your own form field hook. The state model for a form is simple - what is a…

> The two-way data binding in Svelte saves ~4 lines of reusable hook function Based on the RealWorld projects, Svelte saves you around 50% in loc vs React. https://medium.com/dailyjs/a-realworld-comparison-of-front-e...

That’s from 2020 and I’m pretty sure that’s using class components, considering the latest implementations has a separate (using hooks) implementation.

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#243

Post by erikpukinskis »

dpweb wrote: post #239
corytheboyd wrote: post #190

I've worked in a few roughly-the-same-size (~50 engineers) web development shops. It's always the same. Doesn't matter if it's React, Angular, Class based components, Functional components with hooks, Just Some HTML, PHP, Rails views, etc. The frontend just collects the cruft of a product organization changing course very frequently. There are always a dozen half-finished fix-the-world ideas conflicting with each oth…

I'm trying to select a good framework and coming from long before react, having a tough time finding why shouldn't use just custom elements with no framework. Which is already built in. customElements.define('my-element', class MyElement extends HTMLElement { ... }) I can manage state within the component, app state in window.state. Coding up a simple reactivity is really pretty straight forward. Now, for this featur…

If we’re talking about class-based components then I agree with you. React doesn’t do much… maybe some performance benefits, and maybe you can avoid some complex DOM manipulation here and there, but with the extra abstraction required that all might be a wash.

But with functional components I think React gives you something substantially more debuggable than an object instance with random method calls that manipulate the DOM.

React functional components (with hooks) mandate a very specific control flow that probably halves the debugging surface for any given bug, saving time.

You do have to exercise restraint when incorporating third party libraries, but if you can do that it can be a very rapid development environment.

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#244

Post by sakagami0 »

jitl wrote: post #11

Maybe I’m a React apologist, but this list of complaints seems mostly self-inflicted. > Form libraries are portly maintained or documented The two-way data binding in Svelte saves ~4 lines of reusable hook function but doesn’t come close to covering defaults, validation, errors, dependent fields etc - all of that is essential complexity. Write your own form field hook. The state model for a form is simple - what is a…

Right? If anyone likes 2 way binding they should have tried Polymer. 2 way binding is disgustingly complex for large projects and that's why everyone eventually drops it.

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#245

Post by sakagami0 »

React is bad in the same way C++ is bad. It's not really, but it does take a while to learn the ins and outs. In the end, the pattern React provides is much more powerful when used right. But it's not a one size fits all, a lot of the time you don't need the flexibility if you're new to it and just want to get something done.

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#246

Post by eek2121 »

dpweb wrote: post #239
corytheboyd wrote: post #190

I've worked in a few roughly-the-same-size (~50 engineers) web development shops. It's always the same. Doesn't matter if it's React, Angular, Class based components, Functional components with hooks, Just Some HTML, PHP, Rails views, etc. The frontend just collects the cruft of a product organization changing course very frequently. There are always a dozen half-finished fix-the-world ideas conflicting with each oth…

I'm trying to select a good framework and coming from long before react, having a tough time finding why shouldn't use just custom elements with no framework. Which is already built in. customElements.define('my-element', class MyElement extends HTMLElement { ... }) I can manage state within the component, app state in window.state. Coding up a simple reactivity is really pretty straight forward. Now, for this featur…

Compatibility for starters: https://caniuse.com/custom-elementsv1

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#247

Post by soulofmischief »

dpweb wrote: post #239
corytheboyd wrote: post #190

I've worked in a few roughly-the-same-size (~50 engineers) web development shops. It's always the same. Doesn't matter if it's React, Angular, Class based components, Functional components with hooks, Just Some HTML, PHP, Rails views, etc. The frontend just collects the cruft of a product organization changing course very frequently. There are always a dozen half-finished fix-the-world ideas conflicting with each oth…

I'm trying to select a good framework and coming from long before react, having a tough time finding why shouldn't use just custom elements with no framework. Which is already built in. customElements.define('my-element', class MyElement extends HTMLElement { ... }) I can manage state within the component, app state in window.state. Coding up a simple reactivity is really pretty straight forward. Now, for this featur…

Mithril or Svelte should be all you need. If you're coming from React, I'd recommend trying Mithril first. I've been using it heavily for 5 years now and I'll likely stick with it for at least another 15.

Mithril is reactive out of the box, and just works. It smokes React in every category, but still has an optional JSX integration if that's what you're comfortable with.

https://mithril.js.org/

https://svelte.dev/

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#248

Post by kaoD »

dpweb wrote: post #239
corytheboyd wrote: post #190

I've worked in a few roughly-the-same-size (~50 engineers) web development shops. It's always the same. Doesn't matter if it's React, Angular, Class based components, Functional components with hooks, Just Some HTML, PHP, Rails views, etc. The frontend just collects the cruft of a product organization changing course very frequently. There are always a dozen half-finished fix-the-world ideas conflicting with each oth…

I'm trying to select a good framework and coming from long before react, having a tough time finding why shouldn't use just custom elements with no framework. Which is already built in. customElements.define('my-element', class MyElement extends HTMLElement { ... }) I can manage state within the component, app state in window.state. Coding up a simple reactivity is really pretty straight forward. Now, for this featur…

Custom elements are just a way to define tags. React solves everything that's inside that class you wrote... and in a better way IMHO. E.g. with custom elements there's a difference between an attribute and a property and it's a PITA.

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#249

Post by dpweb »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #243
dpweb wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to select a good framework and coming from long before react, having a tough time finding why shouldn't use just custom elements with no framework. Which is already built in. customElements.define('my-element', class MyElement extends HTMLElement { ... }) I can manage state within the component, app state in window.state. Coding up a simple reactivity is really pretty straight forward. Now, for this featur…

If we’re talking about class-based components then I agree with you. React doesn’t do much… maybe some performance benefits, and maybe you can avoid some complex DOM manipulation here and there, but with the extra abstraction required that all might be a wash. But with functional components I think React gives you something substantially more debuggable than an object instance with random method calls that manipulate…

Any good articles I can check out that go into this in depth, or should I just check out the tutorials/documentation? Thanks

Re: React I love you, but you're bringing me down

#250

Post by divs1210 »

bobbylarrybobby wrote: post #127
wpietri wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you say more about this? I'm not a React user, but to me one of the OO fundamentals is "object = behavior + state". What you're saying sounds so obviously correct to me that I guess there's something pretty weird going on in React-land?

Yes, there is something very weird indeed. Functional components are called every time they're rendered (that's not weird). But they have to maintain state between calls; they can't start over again fresh for each call/render (still not weird). So how do they do this? `const [state, setState] = useState(initialValue)`. You might look at that and think, I see useState being called, so it must be called on each render,…

That is bonkers, to be honest.

I've used React a lot, but only via Reagent in ClojureScript.

I think the JS people are being scammed.

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