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‘Serial’ case: Adnan Syed released, conviction tossed

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Re: ‘Serial’ case: Adnan Syed released, conviction tossed

#141

Post by cobaltoxide »

rayiner wrote: post #126
robga wrote: post #11

Serial was blowout success, but flawed in many ways. For me, chief amongst these is not updating the podcast with new (and potentially exculpatory) information as it came to light over the years. What really progressed the case was the Undisclosed podcast [0]. Rabia Chaudry, a childhood friend of Adnan and an attorney, first took Adnan's story to Sarah Koenig, who documented it in the Serial podcast. But in Undisclos…

Serial left me thinking that Syed was probably guilty, or at the very least the case was a close call. The practical truth is that if we required this level of scrutiny for every conviction to stick, we’d multiply by an order of magnitude or two the number of guilty criminals who cannot be convicted.

> The practical truth is that if we required this level of scrutiny for every conviction to stick, we’d multiply by an order of magnitude or two the number of guilty criminals who cannot be convicted.

The standard for criminal conviction is "beyond a reasonable doubt."

There is no possible way Adnan Syed's conviction reached that standard.

Re: ‘Serial’ case: Adnan Syed released, conviction tossed

#142

Post by scyzoryk_xyz »

fasthands9 wrote: post #100
bearcobra wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assertion has always been strange to me. This American Life was releasing their episodes as podcasts for something like 7 years before they decided to do Serial. Shows like Adam Corolla, WTF with Marc Maron, the BS Report, Joe Rogan Experience, etc were all very successful before Serial. Major media companies like NPR, CBC, BBC were releasing podcasts and dedicated podcast companies like TWiT.tv had existed for…

In fairness I think Bill Simmons, Joe Rogan, Marc Maron and Adam Carolla have had their praise for moving podcasts along. Same with This American Life. Serial was different, though in that it was a multi episode look at something. This American life had segments and still had to be designed with the radio listener in mind - who was probably only in the car for 30 min. I don't think Serial is that uniquely good - but…

You could also just call them “radio shows”. It’s a weird thing that the company that made iPods for a few years defined that term and we have gone with it since.

As for the earlier part of your comment - it’s there in the name, “serial”. That was the experiment. But there have been serialized radio shows back when radio was the leading medium. We just don’t remember that time.

What I think is key here is that these people had formal experience and mentorship in doing radio. Lots of it. To them it was just applying that expertise to something we call something different due to shifts in distribution tech.

Re: ‘Serial’ case: Adnan Syed released, conviction tossed

#143

Post by bruceb »

bigmattystyles wrote: post #8
micromacrofoot wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His conviction is vacated but they can put him on trial again.

I doubt that will happen unless something else is revealed as the prosecutors are the ones that asked for the conviction to be vacated.

There is a third possibility, he pleads guilty to time served. He was a minor when the murder happened. He pleads, gets 25 years, with time served + good behavior, he never actually goes back to prison.

Re: ‘Serial’ case: Adnan Syed released, conviction tossed

#144

Post by cush »

robga wrote: post #11

Serial was blowout success, but flawed in many ways. For me, chief amongst these is not updating the podcast with new (and potentially exculpatory) information as it came to light over the years. What really progressed the case was the Undisclosed podcast [0]. Rabia Chaudry, a childhood friend of Adnan and an attorney, first took Adnan's story to Sarah Koenig, who documented it in the Serial podcast. But in Undisclos…

Serial was flawed because they didn't re-record the episodes as new information came out? That's an odd take

Re: ‘Serial’ case: Adnan Syed released, conviction tossed

#145

Post by jmkd »

SECProto wrote: post #65
jmkd wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would Undisclosed have even covered the case were it not for Serial?

One of the hosts of Undisclosed is Rabia Chaudry, who was a childhood friend of Adnan Syed. So really what you are asking here, is whether Ms Chaudry would still have created a podcast without the success of Serial - which is an unanswerable question (but I'd guess yes).

You're quite right about my wording. Agree it's unanswerable but I was also implying the answer would be no. Serial opened a door - for further investigation into the case, and for using a podcast to explore it - that may have remained closed otherwise.

Re: ‘Serial’ case: Adnan Syed released, conviction tossed

#146

Post by jamestimmins »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #74
robga wrote: post #11

Serial was blowout success, but flawed in many ways. For me, chief amongst these is not updating the podcast with new (and potentially exculpatory) information as it came to light over the years. What really progressed the case was the Undisclosed podcast [0]. Rabia Chaudry, a childhood friend of Adnan and an attorney, first took Adnan's story to Sarah Koenig, who documented it in the Serial podcast. But in Undisclos…

I was uneasy with "Serial". Too much obsession I thought with the accused, scant discussion of the murdered. It was just a sad, dark place I felt it was asking me to be a voyeur of. But, yeah, I guess I don't like "true crime" entertainment.

This is why I stopped listening to Serial as well. The prospect of listening to details of someone's death as entertainment felt morally problematic to me.

Re: ‘Serial’ case: Adnan Syed released, conviction tossed

#147

Post by d1sxeyes »

scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #142
fasthands9 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness I think Bill Simmons, Joe Rogan, Marc Maron and Adam Carolla have had their praise for moving podcasts along. Same with This American Life. Serial was different, though in that it was a multi episode look at something. This American life had segments and still had to be designed with the radio listener in mind - who was probably only in the car for 30 min. I don't think Serial is that uniquely good - but…

You could also just call them “radio shows”. It’s a weird thing that the company that made iPods for a few years defined that term and we have gone with it since. As for the earlier part of your comment - it’s there in the name, “serial”. That was the experiment. But there have been serialized radio shows back when radio was the leading medium. We just don’t remember that time. What I think is key here is that these…

Well, they're not really 'radio' either. 'Audio series' might be a better generic term, but for better or for worse, 'podcasts' has stuck.

Re: ‘Serial’ case: Adnan Syed released, conviction tossed

#149

Post by robga »

BeetleB wrote: post #89
robga wrote: post #11

Serial was blowout success, but flawed in many ways. For me, chief amongst these is not updating the podcast with new (and potentially exculpatory) information as it came to light over the years. What really progressed the case was the Undisclosed podcast [0]. Rabia Chaudry, a childhood friend of Adnan and an attorney, first took Adnan's story to Sarah Koenig, who documented it in the Serial podcast. But in Undisclos…

Not listened to Undisclosed, but I did read a fair amount of Rabia Chaudry's book, and to be blunt, it was very off-putting. She was critical of any objective take/perspective. Her presentation was basically the Truth: Adnan Syed is innocent. Anything that supports that statement was accepted relatively uncritically, and anything that didn't was always suspect. BTW, she's not merely a friend - she's his relative.

> BTW, she's not merely a friend - she's his relative.

I don't know that she is. She describes herself as a family friend. Her brother was friends with Adnan. I'm sure they now all consider themselves "family", but I couldn't find any statement declaring blood relation. Perhaps in her book she goes further than I could find on the interweb.

Re: ‘Serial’ case: Adnan Syed released, conviction tossed

#150

Post by ImprobableTruth »

Eisenstein wrote: post #139
ImprobableTruth wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not even sure what that is really supposed to mean. If 100% precludes the potential of an event with infinitesimal likelihood (mass delusion, possession by ghosts, etc.), then as I said nobody ever gets convicted. Otherwise, any "concept of certainty" that uses "100%" to refer to something that might not occur, is either gravely misusing mathematical notation or self-contradictory.

While technically correct this is obviously not how people speak. If you ask someone 'what is the percent chance that drinking this glass of water I just got out of the tap in New York City will kill me within a few seconds?' They would respond '0%', even though by a mathematical definition that is not true.

People generally consider context for their choice of words. Alongside 100% they were also given options such as 99.9999999%, it's clear that 100% in this case is not just used as "very likely".
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