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Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

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Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#261

Post by pb7 »

sennight wrote: post #131
pb7 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are at liberty to buy other products and leave these to those who are happy about the security considerations.

You know, I bet somebody responded very similarly to a complaint about the first game studio to put loot boxes in their games. Now we are plagued by them. "Don't like it? Well just make your own ____!" is another classic.

Weird, I have never played a game with lootboxes nor have I had to even think about avoiding it. Only supports my point that your fear of it affecting you is unfounded in reality.

Except I didn't say make your own, I said pick from the variety of competitors. Who are you to dictate what a third party does, especially when that third party's decisions are well liked by their customers? I don't want the "freedom" to put in cheap aftermarket parts in my high end device, I want it to work extremely well and it does.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#262

Post by pb7 »

shuntress wrote: post #152
pb7 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are at liberty to buy other products and leave these to those who are happy about the security considerations.

Sort of. For now. How much higher do the walls need to become before it's no longer reasonable to live outside Apple's garden?

Slippery slope fallacy. Wake me up when it actually happens because it never does.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#263

Post by Spivak »

postalrat wrote: post #247
Spivak wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web browsers, like communism, is a red herring. There would be absolutely no point to using alternative browser engines on an iPhone unless they got super special second party access. Not being able to run any downloaded code, no JIT, or extensions would make them useless, and allowing those things effectively breaks the iOS security model. Most obviously with screen time, and parental control, but Apple also disable…

Apples own browser downloads code that can download more code that itself can download even more code before finally executing the last bit of code. The technology to secure it surely already exists or ios devices are already insecure.

Apple's own code also implements all the security of the device. The mechanism Apple has to run arbitrary untrusted code on the device is their JavaScript engine. Whatever you want to replace JSC with, like V8, isn't the thing that's constrained by the sandbox, it's the thing that implements the sandbox.

Everyone who's like "just sandbox it" -- yeah that's exactly what JSC is for.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#264

Post by newaccount74 »

mrtksn wrote: post #202

> Forget satellite SOS and the larger camera, the headline is this: Apple has completely redesigned the internals of the iPhone 14 to make it easier to repair. I find this line hilarious because it's an example of law of the instrument[0]. iFixit and other activist repair shops treat these devices as if their(the iPhones) purpose is getting a repair and all this talk over they years about iPhone repairability was fro…

I think you are wrong, people think a lot about repair costs, which is why Apple Care sells so good. If people didn't think of repair, why would they buy Apple Care?

When the back glass on my iPhone X broke, I stopped buying iPhones. Authorized service providers would have charged more for repairing the device than it costs on the second hand market, and 3rd party repair shops would probably do a half assed job because it is so difficult to do.

It's really ridiculous that the part that breaks most easily is hardest to repair.

I ended up buying an Android with a plastic back, and I kind of hate some parts of it, but I also hate that iPhones are so fucking fragile.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#265

Post by astrange »

ojagodzinski wrote: post #47
rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote: post #23

I’m not sure I care much about repairability. For me, makers should have the freedom to design products as they wish. I don’t think that phones and laptops would be as light and portable as iPhones and Macs are if Apple was inhibited by the Right to Repair movement from arranging internal components in such a jampacked way. I also think that makers should have the freedom to design computers whose software tightly in…

> I’m not sure I care much about repairability. For me, makers should have the freedom to design products as they wish. No one should have the "right" to create products that turn to garbage when any part of it breaks. A clean planet is more important than "great user experiences". The second thing that they did it only for profit, is ergonomics of new repairable iphone any worse? Also "software locked" parts should…

The EU preserving the rights of people to steal your phone and sell it for parts would go well with their trying to preserve the rights of people installing malware on it.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#266

Post by hot_gril »

dkonofalski wrote: post #190
hot_gril wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but Apple has probably found that on average the insurance isn't worth buying, otherwise they wouldn't offer it at this price. I guess it's worth buying if you know you're gonna break your phone even more frequently than the average AppleCare+ user does (which is likely more than the average iPhone user), but those $30 fees and the waiting time to repair a phone aren't free.

AppleCare has always been a loss for Apple. The entire repair division is a loss for them. They don't make a profit from repairs. This update is partially marketing spin but, for a lot of users, it was worth buying before and is now even more of a value. If you look at the things that Apple prioritizes, they want to disincentivize self-repair because any quality variations reflect on them whether they did the repair…

I don't buy that Apple repairs are a loss given that third-party repairs can still be profitable at lower prices, but even if they are, it doesn't mean AppleCare is a loss vs making users pay per repair.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#267

Post by [deleted] »

sennight wrote: post #131
pb7 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are at liberty to buy other products and leave these to those who are happy about the security considerations.

You know, I bet somebody responded very similarly to a complaint about the first game studio to put loot boxes in their games. Now we are plagued by them. "Don't like it? Well just make your own ____!" is another classic.

[deleted]

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#268

Post by postalrat »

Spivak wrote: post #263
postalrat wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apples own browser downloads code that can download more code that itself can download even more code before finally executing the last bit of code. The technology to secure it surely already exists or ios devices are already insecure.

Apple's own code also implements all the security of the device. The mechanism Apple has to run arbitrary untrusted code on the device is their JavaScript engine. Whatever you want to replace JSC with, like V8, isn't the thing that's constrained by the sandbox, it's the thing that implements the sandbox. Everyone who's like "just sandbox it" -- yeah that's exactly what JSC is for.

What protects an ios user from a malicious app? Just the agreement the app developer made with apple?

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#269

Post by lake_vincent »

jorvi wrote: post #204
mrtksn wrote: post #202

> Forget satellite SOS and the larger camera, the headline is this: Apple has completely redesigned the internals of the iPhone 14 to make it easier to repair. I find this line hilarious because it's an example of law of the instrument[0]. iFixit and other activist repair shops treat these devices as if their(the iPhones) purpose is getting a repair and all this talk over they years about iPhone repairability was fro…

> Why would anyone try to sell me a device by talking about how easy it is to repair it? I guess Framework laptops must have a hidden compartment full of gold, because they keep selling like hotcakes.

As a happy Framework user, the selling point for me is upgrading, not repairing, the device. To be able upgrade to a new mobo, processor, memory module, or port, without having to buy a whole new device is incredible. As such, I am not planning on buying a new laptop for a loooong time. Clearly the iPhone is not taking that approach - it's repair only, which is not nearly as exciting.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#270

Post by deathanatos »

mrtksn wrote: post #202

> Forget satellite SOS and the larger camera, the headline is this: Apple has completely redesigned the internals of the iPhone 14 to make it easier to repair. I find this line hilarious because it's an example of law of the instrument[0]. iFixit and other activist repair shops treat these devices as if their(the iPhones) purpose is getting a repair and all this talk over they years about iPhone repairability was fro…

> I never in my life purchased a brand new device with intention or plan to repair it.

Devices don't last forever. What happens when inevitably, it fails? I don't want to be buying a new iPhone all the time — money still doesn't grow on trees — and even outside of Apple's ridiculously overpriced products, replacing e.g., my entire laptop¹ because a component failed is not enticing. Better if the design permits a $5 replacement, instead of a $70 or $700 replacement.

And as an engineer, it hurts when you know a small change to the design could have made the repair $5 instead of $75, without impacting anything on the manufacturer's end — except, of course, the amount they're getting manufacturing replacement parts nobody needs!

Not to mention the e-waste generated by re-manufacturing then entire device just to fix a single component.

> What I expect is that it would never need a repair

Alas, stuff breaks. Such is the world.

> and if it needs a repair the vendor will handle it.

… well, good luck finding such a vendor. Apple, in particular, does not offer compelling warranties. (Though IME warranties have shrunk across most vendors. Which is a proxy for quality: the manufacturer themselves don't think their device can withstand more than 1 or 2 years at most.)

¹phones are, unfortunately, extremely limited in what you can repair with almost any model on the market today. It's a shame.

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