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Mouse embryo with brain and beating heart created from stem cells

cambridgeindependent.co.uk

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Re: Mouse embryo with brain and beating heart created from stem cells

#91

Post by terminalcommand »

tsimionescu wrote: post #83
nomel wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Primates have been cloned [1], human embryos have been cloned (supposedly) [2], and there are confirmed gene edited babies [3]. But, I doubt the existence of a ban means humans haven't been cloned, because I have trouble believing that a group that would successfully clone a human would be dumb enough to tell the world, state sponsored or not. 1. https://www.science.org/content/article/these-monkey-twins-a... 2. http…

Primates are not humans, cloning embryos for stem cell research is different from creating human clones, and the scientist who produced the two CRISPR-edited children went to jail, and he and his associates are banned for life from working in this type of research or even providing care in this area.

Aren't primates at least similar to humans? We're both mammals, have similar physical characteristiscs. Why shouldn't cloning people work?

I come from a law background so I am not familiar with the science. I've heard biological goods such as stem cells, eggs, spermia etc. are becoming very valuable and they are not very protected. I suppose underground groups could easily get they're hands on whatever they need. Securing illegal goods from a physician doing IVF on humans could be all they need.

Re: Mouse embryo with brain and beating heart created from stem cells

#93

Post by b112 »

parineum wrote: post #32
fsckboy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to the uninitiated, there's a dark side to the initiated I wish there was a dark side! > they did not create a new living artifact from scratch that is where this is headed, that is where they want to go, that is not what they've done... till they do it. That is the dark side. Humans in a competition with one another are not capable in a broad sense of reining in every worst impulse, as we saw with recent "gain of…

Why is that the dark side?

Not sure why the parent thinks so, but my only concern is with new lifeforms.

We constantly mess up the ecosystem, merely by introducing existing species into environments which cannot handle them.

Soon we will be able to engineer exotic forms of life, yet we cannot currently control, reign in, or manage current, naturly evolved forms of life.

For example, we have to spray deadly chemicals on crops, to kill fungus, bacteria, etc. Of we have a pest problem, we have to entice them to eat poison, or trick them into traps.

Our control of existing orgamisims is essentially non-existent. The above methods just reduce population, often very ineffectively.

This means that almost certainly, when things we create end up free, we will be incapable of removing them from the ecosystem.

We could literally destroy the biosphere more readily than nukes, or global warming ever could.

And things will get free.

Re: Mouse embryo with brain and beating heart created from stem cells

#94

Post by user_7832 »

gardenfelder wrote: post #2

This really is pretty amazing work. But, to the uninitiated, there's a dark side; I overheard someone commenting about an earlier post about this experiment, thinking it's possible to get out a chemistry set and just make a living thing. To be clear, they started with stem cells, and teased them into doing the right thing - they did not create a new living artifact from scratch; > Instead, they used stem cells - the…

Well, to quote Carl Sagan, if you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.

I doubt human technology will be able to create life from organic molecules for at least several decades if not centuries.

Re: Mouse embryo with brain and beating heart created from stem cells

#95

Post by graderjs »

samus wrote: post #77
graderjs wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ho ho courting controversy. The difference is you don't know if there's a difference: when does the soul come in? Maybe you don't believe in souls but can you disprove that they exist? is the personality only some sort of construct that's formed as a child is raised? Or is there something eternal spiritual inside? It doesn't have to trip your anti-religious ADS, maybe it's a fact about the universe we haven't found a…

How would we be able to tell that a person has no soul? How can we even say that we have a soul? The problem with the existence of the soul is that there is no definition of what the soul is for science to prove or disprove its existence. Right now it's just a fuzzy term to be employed in religious rhetoric.

Too logical. Don't be so materialistic. People talk about souls right there has to be something to that. No definition doesn't mean doesn't exist, maybe means we don't understand. We don't understand everything. We should err on the side of caution.

It's not just religious. Too much of an onerous connotation. Unnecessary. It's part of our history, our cultural, our art. It's something we as humans know to be true. Like consciousness. Can we "tell" that we are conscious. Can we "say" that we are conscious, as you say.

The problem with the existence of consciousness is there is not definition of what consciousness is for science to prove or disprove its existence. Right not it's just a fuzzy term employed in grant applications.

C'mon. We have to recognize the limits of what we know and not be so fucking arrogant to think we can just pontificate, but more importantly, act, beyond that.

If we don't know it has a soul, how we kill it?

It's like saying: "You can press a button, and that will release a poison gas into a box, and there's some probability that there's something alive in that box."

The thing is, you don't know. Is there a life in there, or is there not? You don't know. But you really think it's ethical to take that chance? Or...to fallback on some psuedo-scientific notion that "we (our instruments) can't definite it yet" so it can't exist.

I'm sorry, that's not good enough. We might just be talking about the eternal part of ourselves, or at least at part that survives incarnation in this body. How are we so arrogant to say: Yeah, we totally know the truth, let's just kill everything (or experiment on everything) that we're sure there's no life in.

Ugh...anyway, thank you for engaging. I'm not taking a pot shot at you. I'm not saying you think all these things. Just a chance to expound on this subject. Have a good night! :) ;p x ;p

Re: Mouse embryo with brain and beating heart created from stem cells

#96

Post by [deleted] »

user_7832 wrote: post #94
gardenfelder wrote: post #2

This really is pretty amazing work. But, to the uninitiated, there's a dark side; I overheard someone commenting about an earlier post about this experiment, thinking it's possible to get out a chemistry set and just make a living thing. To be clear, they started with stem cells, and teased them into doing the right thing - they did not create a new living artifact from scratch; > Instead, they used stem cells - the…

Well, to quote Carl Sagan, if you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. I doubt human technology will be able to create life from organic molecules for at least several decades if not centuries.

[deleted]

Re: Mouse embryo with brain and beating heart created from stem cells

#97

Post by practice9 »

mola wrote: post #75
sacrosancty wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would we abuse them? We treat disabled people OK, don't we? What exactly is your fear? Some kind of prejudice against people who were born through different procedures? We already have test tube babies walking among us and nobody mistreats them.

"testube babies" have parents. These will have owners. I think it's a valid fear that once someone is able to create living things out of nothing, they'll treat them as products and tools We already do it with animals....

There is a book by Ned and Constance Sublette called "The American Slave Coast" that goes deep into detail how slavery worked in USA. It was essentially same as what you're saying, slaves were considered a self-replicating financial product and a tool for work

Re: Mouse embryo with brain and beating heart created from stem cells

#98

Post by hombre_fatal »

TEP_Kim_Il_Sung wrote: post #52
pyuser583 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in the generic “eat better” sense. There are some diets that can affect hormones/cycles, but it’s eating special foods, not laying off the ice cream.

I was referring to vitamins and minerals kind of nutrition, not dieting. Forming a baby takes ungodly amounts of minerals.

This sounds like the sort of giddy overfocusing we do when we project a certain lifestyle (usually one we already live, ourself) as a cure-all onto everything else including people we know nothing about.

I remember being jacked at 20 years old, eating spinach and egg whites at the university cafeteria, looking somberly around at everyone—who I'm sure didn't do 100 air-squats each day—while they devoured fried chicken strips. I felt bad for them. How many ailments could we fix if everyone did 20 push-ups when they woke up in the morning and then snorted a cup of oatmeal? Real cocksure of myself, I'd shrug and think what a shame.

What I'm trying to say is, did OP's wife try doing pull-ups while eating paleo?

Re: Mouse embryo with brain and beating heart created from stem cells

#99

Post by intrasight »

user_7832 wrote: post #94
gardenfelder wrote: post #2

This really is pretty amazing work. But, to the uninitiated, there's a dark side; I overheard someone commenting about an earlier post about this experiment, thinking it's possible to get out a chemistry set and just make a living thing. To be clear, they started with stem cells, and teased them into doing the right thing - they did not create a new living artifact from scratch; > Instead, they used stem cells - the…

Well, to quote Carl Sagan, if you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. I doubt human technology will be able to create life from organic molecules for at least several decades if not centuries.

What a great quote!

Re: Mouse embryo with brain and beating heart created from stem cells

#100

Post by ralusek »

intrasight wrote: post #99
user_7832 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, to quote Carl Sagan, if you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. I doubt human technology will be able to create life from organic molecules for at least several decades if not centuries.

What a great quote!

And to think he was just trying to convince a kernel developer that it would be fine to use JS, just this one time, for a simple UI he needed.
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