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Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

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Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#321

Post by _yb2s »

root_axis wrote: post #221
jquery wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don’t just need human moderation, we need due process. These companies control too much of our digital lives and make so much money from us, but have zero regard for us as soon as it’s inconvenient to investigate a case, because that would cut into their insane margins. I was permabanned for Twitter recently merely for getting the attention of some large influencers who disagreed with me (no actual rule was broken…

They only control what we voluntarily give them. Social media controls nothing of importance in my life.

I hate social media, and use it as little as possible, but can't figure out how to do what you are saying here in practice without total social isolation in the real world outside of social media.

For example, there are several sports I participate in (physically, in real life) but these are organized on either Instagram or Facebook. I have created accounts solely to access this information (date/time of events). Facebook and Instagram are constantly disabling and blocking my accounts, apparently because my low engagement (zero posts, only "lurking") triggers some sort of bot detector algorithm. I have no recourse, and can't contact anyone at Meta about this.

I've tried getting these communities to inform me outside of facebook/instagram, but it's too big of an ask. These mediums work for everyone else except me, and the people involved lack the tech savvy or interest in trying to find an alternative.

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#322

Post by lupire »

job_suche wrote: post #187
ReptileMan wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were lots of people with beautiful blue eyes and silky smooth pale white skin that perished in the Holocaust... Eyeballing the difference between Ashkenazi and a regular person from Central or Eastern Europe is mission impossible.

Quoted post unavailable.

This is literally the core point of the damn movie. I assure you that the director was aware.

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#323

Post by swayvil »

tomohawk wrote: post #310
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #172

Here we are, deep down in the dystopia of Automatic Content Classification by robots. Far less important of an example, but I was just put in "Facebook jail" for 24 hours for posting a picture of my son at the beach in his bathing suit with no shirt. Y'know, as one does at the beach. I can only assume it's because my son has long hair and the Convolutional Neural Network or whatever decided he was a girl and therefor…

That's life under the Techiban

In Science We Trust.

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#324

Post by swayvil »

jquery wrote: post #202
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #172

Here we are, deep down in the dystopia of Automatic Content Classification by robots. Far less important of an example, but I was just put in "Facebook jail" for 24 hours for posting a picture of my son at the beach in his bathing suit with no shirt. Y'know, as one does at the beach. I can only assume it's because my son has long hair and the Convolutional Neural Network or whatever decided he was a girl and therefor…

We don’t just need human moderation, we need due process. These companies control too much of our digital lives and make so much money from us, but have zero regard for us as soon as it’s inconvenient to investigate a case, because that would cut into their insane margins. I was permabanned for Twitter recently merely for getting the attention of some large influencers who disagreed with me (no actual rule was broken…

It's similar on Reddit and, yes, even HN. The mere fact that you were "flagged" (by one of your peers) means that you are, to a significant degree, flagworthy and thus justifiably treated like a criminal.

Maybe these people doing the flagging are special people who have proven their worth. I dunno.

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#325

Post by math-dev »

bwb wrote: post #117
math-dev wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t work at facebook but based on your response I am more likely to believe you now. Sorry if it caused any angst, wasn’t intended. However doesn’t change the fact that a lot of things get accepted at face value if they align with what someone’s view of things is

No worries, I just was kinda stunned you would imply I had any motive to not share something accurate. It was a convo I had this morning with an author who is a friend. (It it is just one piece of data, and people are good at finding data that supports their viewpoint of course. Given all the scandals FB is under and problems on this thread, I do think it supports a narrative of FB having massive problems around ethi…

That’s crazy to hear! It really feels like the wild Wild West with these large tech companies - consider in contrast how much regulatory and compliance scrutiny a bank would have, they would never dream to behave like petulant little kids. I guess the more fines big tech get and the more regulations enter the space, the faster they will clean up their act.

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#326

Post by swayvil »

_yb2s wrote: post #321
root_axis wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They only control what we voluntarily give them. Social media controls nothing of importance in my life.

I hate social media, and use it as little as possible, but can't figure out how to do what you are saying here in practice without total social isolation in the real world outside of social media. For example, there are several sports I participate in (physically, in real life) but these are organized on either Instagram or Facebook. I have created accounts solely to access this information (date/time of events). Fac…

You are being punished for not "engaging" enough. Wow. I mean I imagined. So it really is a thing.

Like that black mirror episode where you aren't allowed to close your eyes when there's a commercial on.

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#327

Post by swayvil »

root_axis wrote: post #277
BlargMcLarg wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you fully grasp what the slope is sliding to. There are enough token anecdotes of companies doing background checks on social media, and will actively flag individuals for having zero presence. We also have social credit score horror stories. Your answer doesn't work anymore when lack of participation is considered wrong. We should be blocking that instead of assuming things will just work out forever a…

> There are enough token anecdotes of companies doing background checks on social media, and will actively flag individuals for having zero presence. I'm sure it happens, but I don't believe that to be a real issue since using the presence of a social media account as a filtering tool for hiring is obviously ridiculous, and as someone who has done a lot of hiring, it's completely absurd to imagine we'd ever turn away…

You haven't thought about peer pressure enough. It's got depths.

"You must do this thing" evolves into "you must support this thing" and then into "absence of support is equivalent to nonsupport (antisupport... whatever)".

And in social media this evolution is fast.

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#328

Post by toomuchtodo »

protomyth wrote: post #313
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #172

Here we are, deep down in the dystopia of Automatic Content Classification by robots. Far less important of an example, but I was just put in "Facebook jail" for 24 hours for posting a picture of my son at the beach in his bathing suit with no shirt. Y'know, as one does at the beach. I can only assume it's because my son has long hair and the Convolutional Neural Network or whatever decided he was a girl and therefor…

I sometimes wonder what would happen (it won't) if some fed-up Congressperson drafted a bill that would allow folks to sue Facebook, etc. for libel when it accused you of being a ped0, criminal, or other malcontent. Perhaps they would be a bit less happy to accuse their users of vile things.

Sec 230 repeal? Or something adjacent to that strategy?

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/08/white-house-renews-...

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases...

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#329

Post by nobody9999 »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #160
dane-pgp wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you honestly think this would go? They destroy the certifications of the electoral votes from the states (as almost happened[0]), causing various states to (disingenuously) disagree about how to replace the lost documents. Enough FUD (and lawsuits, and delays) would be generated during this period of public disorientation that the Republican party could exploit the ambiguity of the Constitutional phrase "a m…

If the US is so fragile that a box of paper is somehow key to the stability of an entire empire, we're pretty much doomed. Also your statement that "Since a majority of states at the time had Republican representation, they would have elected Trump" is laughable. It's well known that Trump asked multiple Republican governors to "find some votes" and they obviously did not do this. Even if someone is a demagogue that…

>Also your statement that "Since a majority of states at the time had Republican representation, they would have elected Trump" is laughable.

Actually, it's not. The way this works (I really hope you're not an American, because if you are you really should know this) is that if the counting of electoral votes is sufficiently disputed (in this counterfactual case, the vote certificates were destroyed), deciding the outcome of the election rests with the US House of Representatives.

If that were (and it has, several times in US history), to happen the members of the House would vote (on a state by state basis, not each representative voting individually) on who was to be the President.

Since a majority (26 or 27 out of 50, IIRC) of states have Republican majorities in the number of House members, a House vote would likely have gone Trump's way[0].

This is something of a peccadillo of the US Presidential electoral system that probably should be reformed[1], but it currently is the law of the land.

[0] Which is why it was so important (at least for the Trumpists) for the proceedings to be disrupted. It was the final opportunity for them to overturn the clearly expressed will of the people.

[1] Because regardless of which party's state cohorts have a majority, that's a supremely undemocratic way to choose the winner and is a relic of the state of the states (as essentially separate nations banding together for defense) in the late 18th century.

Edit: Fixed typo.

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#330

Post by swayvil »

piokoch wrote: post #34

The problem is that no automatic method we have now will catch context. There is a difference between "Jews were murdered by Germans during war" and "Jews destroyed German economy before the war" that will not be recognized by any machine we have nowadays. The first is true, the second is bullshit, how algorithm can now this? More, even if Facebook employees humans to do moderation still for some contractor from Asia…

It's gotta be crowdsourced. Like reddit/hn voting. But smarter.

Like voting weights the value of peer's votes and such.

I think it's the only way.

Otoh, the true Lord of the Flies might emerge that way. Maybe democracy is inherently flawed. I dunno. Experiments are called for.

How do we test social media designs?

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