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US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

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Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#371

Post by kennend3 »

tristor wrote: post #218
rexreed wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country(s) other than the US were the most problematic / worst? Personally I've had more aggravation at the Canadian border than any European country.

Many countries are worse to deal with than the US at the border during entry. Ironically, most of the worst ones are wealthy / "low corruption" countries, because they have well-paid, interested people at the border, who also don't like having their authority challenged in any way. The UK and Canada are both significantly worse to deal with than the US, probably my worst experience on entry though was Australia. IMO,…

I'm Canadian and lived in the US for 5 years and crossed back and forth at least once a month.

I agree, Canada's border crossing is worse.

I've crossed the US with underage children without their mother present several times.

US customs hauled the kids out of the car and took them to a secure location and asked them where they are going, if their mother knows where they are, etc.

This makes perfect sense and I'm glad the US customs officers took the time to do this. They are doing their job, preventing child abductions, etc and it was outstanding to see it being done.

Entering Canada it seems they only care about one thing : What do you have they can tax you on.

I wont be surprised to see the day when Canada measures how much gas is in your car, and if it exceeds an arbitrary amount tax you on this too.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#372

Post by JAlexoid »

roenxi wrote: post #220
woodruffw wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Any malicious person savvy enough to pull off a crime of interest to the Feds is smart enough to provide a wiped or burner phone to DHS/ICE, and they have to know this. So, what is the point in doing this if not to target law abiding citizens. This isn't even remotely true. See for example the recent Anom honeypot[1]. Criminals do more or less the same things that ordinary citizens do, and often have strictly wo…

Although grandparent's logic is faulty, I think it does go to an important point. They don't need 15 years warrantless storage of phone data. On anyone, including foreigners. If it takes them 15 years to realise they shouldn't have let someone over the border it is around 14 to 14.995 years too late. The powers these agencies have is far in excesses of what they need to do their jobs, and it is going to be abused. Th…

It's called security theatre.

And 15 years is corruption driven, because now you are spending X millions. of taxpayer money to store this data.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#373

Post by JohnFen »

daniel-cussen wrote: post #355
Operyl wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is understandable, I just know not to fuck with the Postal Service. I doubt you will get convicted, but I don’t have great luck with things lol.

It's not that dangerous. They'll talk to you about what your intent was. On the other hand it could be the companies mailing you junk with no reply for decades have the ill intent because they're trying to get people into committing felonies (entrapment) with dogshit offers nobody would ever take that are littering the mail system. So if they accuse you, tell them that accusation must be redirected--like mail is--to…

Yes, this.

And I don't open the mail -- that's a crime the postal service would take very seriously indeed. Sure, perhaps my practice is technically illegal, but I don't think it's the sort of illegal that the USPS would spend a lot of time and money on.

I'm not opening someone else's mail, I'm not preventing it from being delivered to the address on it, and I'm not preventing the recipient from receiving it. His death does that.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#374

Post by throwaway290 »

tristor wrote: post #187

Lot's of people fantasizing about what they'll do at the border with weaponizing the data on a burner phone. Let me present a "simpler" and actually realistic option (only for US citizens) on how to handle this: 1. Have a reasonable amount of emergency savings (6-8 months of expenses stored). 2. Have someone in-country who isn't traveling with you who can make sure your bills get paid (financial power of attorney). 3…

What are some of the less reasonable and courteous (but still first world) countries?

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#375

Post by MockObject »

lisper wrote: post #356
MockObject wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I didn't have any problem understanding it at all, when I first read it.

So? Just because one person professes to have no trouble understanding something doesn't mean it was clear. Maybe you have unusual powers of comprehension. Maybe you understood it because the tacit assumptions happened to align with your prejudices. Maybe you are rewriting the past [1] to save face. Your testimony in this regard doesn't really inform the discussion. [1] https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2014/02/h…

The prejudice that it's unlikely that an HN poster doesn't know George Floyd's story? Not only should you have that prejudice too, but simply assuming good faith would have helped you as well.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#376

Post by nilespotter »

YeBanKo wrote: post #304
macrolime wrote: post #227

Even if you are a person who will never in your life end up as any kind of person of interest for the government, handing over data in this way could still be quite dangerous. Phones will often contain data that can facilitate theft and fraud if ending up in the wrong hands. If they're able to copy everything, including private data from all apps that could be quite bad. For example many countries now use apps to log…

Things like secured enclave should make it hard to extract private key from a device even if you have full access.

For my part I don't trust PRISM partner Apple to secure anything from the government, enclave or not.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#377

Post by toss1 »

tristor wrote: post #169
toss1 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you cannot see the difference between civil rights movements attempting to change governing to be more even-handed vs expansionist authoritarian governments or movements attempting to destroy democratic governments altogether, you need serious help (and should at least stop broadcasting your ignorance).

It's less about the difference between these groups and more about the response to these groups. It is your politics showing in your response rather than the person you are replying to... do you think they don't believe that Islamic terrorists exist (which they mentioned)? At no point in the history of the government national security apparatus has the target and its veracity made any difference in the trend line of…

Your argument, and that of many others here, seems to be that any govt surveillance is illegitimate, and that govt cannot have any legitimate reason to capture information on anyone.

There couldn't be any actual reason for intelligence operations. "It is your politics showing".

Any such view is hopelessly ignorant and naive, yet it pops up here often.

The person to whom I'm replying is blatantly implying that it is nothing but a variety of illegitimate excuses that form a false justification for intelligence operations.

This is even more ignorant than usual, as none of those are the source of intelligence gathering, which predates all of them.

Yes, I'm familiar with COINTELPRO, a horde of illegal FBI operations, and many other excesses among the 17 intelligence agencies. I also note that these were ILLEGAL and shut down. I also note that intelligence has been twisted and abused by politicians, including bogh Bush presidents (Bush Sr. let exaggerated estimates of Soviet mil funding drive our mil funding, which did have the good result of collapsing the SU, and Jr abused intel to wrongly justify the Iraq invasion on WMD grounds).

I'm know enough to see that while the excesses and even abuses do matter a lot, they are not a justification for ending all intelligence, whether domestic or international. If you want to do that, we might as well simply declare anarchy, and let everyone deal with the criminals and warlords who will take over, and that's no exaggeration.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#378

Post by rjbwork »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #367
macrolime wrote: post #227

Even if you are a person who will never in your life end up as any kind of person of interest for the government, handing over data in this way could still be quite dangerous. Phones will often contain data that can facilitate theft and fraud if ending up in the wrong hands. If they're able to copy everything, including private data from all apps that could be quite bad. For example many countries now use apps to log…

> to some account in Nigeria. It must be awkward to be an honest Nigerian on Hacker News, since the country is famous for obvious online scams.

I worked with a great Nigerian dev some years ago. He contracted for us to do our frontend work. The stories this dude told were insane. He lived in Lagos, notorious for traffic jams. He would frequently get stuck in multi-hour long traffic jams just trying to get fuel for his electric generator. He had to do this to keep his power on during the routine black/brown outs that plagued the city, so that he could continue to work. He eventually, thanks to his work, was able to move to a nicer part of the city where the electricity was more reliable.

Last I heard he and his GF/wife (I don't recall which) were able to immigrate to Dubai, where he's continuing to work as a contractor for western clients, with an eye to eventually immigrating to Europe or the US.

I wish him well, but it is a damn shame that the best option for Nigerians who wish to engage in this type of work is to...leave.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#379

Post by nerbert »

nilespotter wrote: post #376
YeBanKo wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things like secured enclave should make it hard to extract private key from a device even if you have full access.

For my part I don't trust PRISM partner Apple to secure anything from the government, enclave or not.

It's certainly not a good option. It's also one of the best options available on the market, save completely opting out of tech.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#380

Post by lizardactivist »

Imagine having a knock on your door because you exchanged a few friendly text messages 15 years ago with someone who is being investigated for a crime committed today.

Citizens are suspects. Tourists are terrorists. Everyone is a potential criminal in the land of the free.

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