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CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

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Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#161

Post by hedora »

xani_ wrote: post #152
hedora wrote: post #79

Honestly, they should just mandate a 240V generator port (with a grid cutoff interlock!) on main service boxes moving forward. Ideally, there would be some different standard connector so that the port would only work with inverter-style generators that have constant frequency / voltage as load shifts around. Otherwise, people would end up frying appliance computets with cheap generators. Of course, this would lead t…

Most people would complain as they don't plan on using generator and extra socket and switch is extra cost. People needing that cable are just being cheap and not wanting to do it properly

It's $100-200 in extra parts.

California already forces people to spend $1000's on LED compatible dimmers and moisture / motion sensing switches (spoiler alert: none of these things work properly, and they all have a high first year failure rate). They also have fascination with putting power outlets in useless places.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#162

Post by justsomehnguy »

NotYourLawyer wrote: post #143
angrygoat wrote: post #78

I've been shocked by one of these – I was setting up some computers, asked for an extension cord, got handed a male-to-male cord. Didn't notice until I plugged one end in, and grabbed the other while fishing around for it while looking. It never occurred to me that it might be male on both ends. The shock was very painful but the RCD tripped and saved my life. I'm quite grateful to the regulators here in Australia th…

Interesting. I’ve never tried it out, but I assumed that an RCD / GFCI would trip more or less instantaneously. I’m kind of surprised you felt much of anything.

> To reduce the risk of electrocution, RCDs should operate within 25–40 milliseconds

Now divide 1000ms to 50Hz.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#163

Post by kube-system »

teraflop wrote: post #105
ajross wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The breaker isn't part of the circuit, though. Generator connects to in-wall distribution which connects to appliances. You only go across the circuit breaker on the way to the mains line, which is (hopefully) disconnected. Or else it's not, and indeed you'll get overcurrent protection for any attempt to power your neighbors appliances.

If you make a cable to plug a 15A outlet in your home into a 15A outlet on the generator, then hopefully the generator has its own breaker that would trip if too much current was drawn. If you plug your house directly into a 40A outlet (which has a different shape) then, yeah, you're screwed.

If you plug your generator directly into a dryer/oven outlet, it should be on a dedicated branch circuit, and everything else you load in the house will actually have two breakers between it and the generator... one for the branch you're feeding from to the bus, and one from the bus to each branch circuit. And the generator probably has a third.

The only real difference between this setup and a proper generator hookup is a mechanical interlock so that the main and feeder branch breakers can't be on at the same time, and the gender of the generator hookup outlet.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#164

Post by stickfigure »

transcriptase wrote: post #58
Scoundreller wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t the usual advice to turn off your main breaker? Both to protect a lineworker and to avoid stalling your generator by trying to power up the neighbourhood?

I’m not sure I want to see the Venn diagram of people who would buy this cable, and people who would know they need to do that.

Keep in mind that backfeeding your house won't actually work unless you disconnect from the grid. Your little generator cannot power the whole grid. You'll pop a breaker immediately. So even a total idiot isn't going to electrify the neighborhood (though they could cause serious momentary risk).

I know a couple people who use this approach. They're some of the most electrically savvy people I know. I don't get worked up about it.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#165

Post by a2tech »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #91
TIPSIO wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really interesting... What are people doing with their lights where this would ever come up though? Edit: From reddit, a use case is found [1]: > They’re actually used my law enforcement whenever they do a raid and seize a computer. If they turn the computer off, they’ll have to try and get past a password. And if the hard drive is encrypted, they’re basically SOL. > This can be a real issue for things like drug deal…

Back feeding power from a generator through a receptacle rather than a proper panel interlock.

Thats why I made one. I've upgraded now to a proper panel setup for my generator, but it was a quick and simple solution in the moment.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#166

Post by toast0 »

Scoundreller wrote: post #41
josephcsible wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's not a big risk of overcurrent here, since the 15A breaker will trip on overcurrent even when it's being backfed. The main hazard with these suicide cables is of electrocution, both inside your house due to the exposed blades being energized, and of linemen working to restore the power.

Isn’t the usual advice to turn off your main breaker? Both to protect a lineworker and to avoid stalling your generator by trying to power up the neighbourhood?

Better advice is to use a proper inlet, with either a real transfer switch, or a mechanical lockout if allowed in your jurisdiction.

If you're using a cord like this, you almost certainly don't have anything but your brain preventing you from using it wrong. Brains aren't always enough.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#167

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

angrygoat wrote: post #78

I've been shocked by one of these – I was setting up some computers, asked for an extension cord, got handed a male-to-male cord. Didn't notice until I plugged one end in, and grabbed the other while fishing around for it while looking. It never occurred to me that it might be male on both ends. The shock was very painful but the RCD tripped and saved my life. I'm quite grateful to the regulators here in Australia th…

While a regrettable experience, it's extremely unlikely the RCD saved your life. Being shocked by 240V domestic supply is a thing that happens all the time, and deaths are very rare. Usually you'd have to have current passing through your heart, as if you grabbed a hot wire with one hand and were standing barefoot in a puddle with the opposite foot. Grabbing the end of a M-M extension cord like you described would probably result in current mostly flowing through your hand a little, then to the neutral or ground conductors.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#168

Post by dave78 »

londons_explore wrote: post #137

Thought experiment: Could you make one of these wires that is safe? I think you'd have to start with human rated GFCI... Current GFCI systems aren't human rated (ie. they might fail, and should only be used as a secondary safety feature, not the primary way to stop the user touching the electricity).

I don't think so. There are failure modes that GFCI wouldn't catch. For instance, if you managed to grab both the hot and neutral prongs at the same time of the live end of your hypothetical GFCI-protected cord, it may not trip since the current would be passing through you but still returning on the neutral (maybe there'd be enough leakage to ground through your feet/shoes to trip it anyway, but I certainly wouldn't rely on that).

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#169

Post by flyinghamster »

I've heard of these referred to as "Jesus cords," as in you're going to meet Him soon if you mishandle it.

But really, if you're going to hook your house up to a generator, you should have a proper transfer switch installed. You don't want to risk energizing the neighborhood distribution lines by feeding power into them. Those transformers work both ways.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#170

Post by amluto »

sokoloff wrote: post #76
TheDudeMan wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because the alternative is to not have power during the (increasingly common) blackouts. I'm assuming that is the alternative due to there not being a proper way to accomplish this goal that does not cost thousands of dollars.

There are reasonably priced (under $100, though not under $3 like a common receptacle) male power inlets. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-Controls-30-Amp-Power-I... is the first one I found on Google (4-wire for 240V center-tapped), but there are many, including a 120V version: https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-5278-CWP-Straight-Flanged-Rec... Even these, if hardwired to the building's service, represent some risk,…

The correct low-budget way to connect one of these is using an interlock kit:

https://www.se.com/us/en/product/HOMCGK2C/load-center-access...

You need the inlet, the kit, and a correctly sized breaker that is suitable for backfeeding.

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