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CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

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Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#71

Post by ajross »

josephcsible wrote: post #24
zibby8 wrote: post #8

Back feeding seems insane. Most residential circuits are rated for 15A. A 5000 watt generator can produce over 40 amps at 120V. Seems like a good way to start an electrical fire.

There's not a big risk of overcurrent here, since the 15A breaker will trip on overcurrent even when it's being backfed. The main hazard with these suicide cables is of electrocution, both inside your house due to the exposed blades being energized, and of linemen working to restore the power.

The breaker isn't part of the circuit, though. Generator connects to in-wall distribution which connects to appliances. You only go across the circuit breaker on the way to the mains line, which is (hopefully) disconnected. Or else it's not, and indeed you'll get overcurrent protection for any attempt to power your neighbors appliances.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#72

Post by scarby2 »

Scoundreller wrote: post #41
josephcsible wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's not a big risk of overcurrent here, since the 15A breaker will trip on overcurrent even when it's being backfed. The main hazard with these suicide cables is of electrocution, both inside your house due to the exposed blades being energized, and of linemen working to restore the power.

Isn’t the usual advice to turn off your main breaker? Both to protect a lineworker and to avoid stalling your generator by trying to power up the neighbourhood?

if you do this you absolutely need to turn off your main breaker.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#73

Post by acomjean »

josephcsible wrote: post #24
zibby8 wrote: post #8

Back feeding seems insane. Most residential circuits are rated for 15A. A 5000 watt generator can produce over 40 amps at 120V. Seems like a good way to start an electrical fire.

There's not a big risk of overcurrent here, since the 15A breaker will trip on overcurrent even when it's being backfed. The main hazard with these suicide cables is of electrocution, both inside your house due to the exposed blades being energized, and of linemen working to restore the power.

This is generally why Solar installs don't work with the power out. They just shut off to prevent back feeding into the grid. (That and I think the dc->ac converter syncs with the 60hz of the US grid)

We don't have a battery but if you install a backup battery I believe there is circuity to cut the power off from the grid when powering your house.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#74

Post by TIPSIO »

kevinmchugh wrote: post #39

There's a wonderful kind of writing that pops up at hardware stores in response to annual searches for suicide cables. A couple examples here https://twitter.com/kobunheat/status/1336134415336964096 THESE ARE NOT MADE THEY SHOULD NEVER BE MADE has the kind of direct clarity of existential risk that they sought for with "This is not a place of honor. Nothing of value is here."

Really interesting...

What are people doing with their lights where this would ever come up though?

Edit: From reddit, a use case is found [1]:

> They’re actually used my law enforcement whenever they do a raid and seize a computer. If they turn the computer off, they’ll have to try and get past a password. And if the hard drive is encrypted, they’re basically SOL.

> This can be a real issue for things like drug dealers or CP busts, where they need to transport the computer for analysis, but can’t turn it off. So they roll in a specially designed power bank, plug it into the computer’s power strip, then unplug the power strip from the wall. The power bank keeps the strip hot while they transport it.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/livesound/comments/am6308/one_of_my...

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#75

Post by [deleted] »

elzbardico wrote: post #27

How can folks not see that using such contraption is obviously a shitty idea? That’s why we need to completely overhaul the teaching of physics in middle and high school. Every citizen should have at least a basic understanding of basic physical concepts that allow then to understand why this kind of thing is a bad idea

[deleted]

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#76

Post by sokoloff »

TheDudeMan wrote: post #49
elzbardico wrote: post #27

How can folks not see that using such contraption is obviously a shitty idea? That’s why we need to completely overhaul the teaching of physics in middle and high school. Every citizen should have at least a basic understanding of basic physical concepts that allow then to understand why this kind of thing is a bad idea

Probably because the alternative is to not have power during the (increasingly common) blackouts. I'm assuming that is the alternative due to there not being a proper way to accomplish this goal that does not cost thousands of dollars.

There are reasonably priced (under $100, though not under $3 like a common receptacle) male power inlets.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-Controls-30-Amp-Power-I... is the first one I found on Google (4-wire for 240V center-tapped), but there are many, including a 120V version: https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-5278-CWP-Straight-Flanged-Rec...

Even these, if hardwired to the building's service, represent some risk, but the risk is to the people poking fingers into the box, which could reasonably have a locking cover on it. If that male inlet is powered only via a transfer switch or a back-fed breaker that's normally off, the risk is much, much lower than a double-male cord.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#77

Post by rdl »

GnarfGnarf wrote: post #51
h2odragon wrote: post #2

I recall a holocaust among hand crafted toys, a few years ago: They were enforcing "materiel origin" labeling or something and you couldn't sell home made toys without a lot of paperwork to certify they were lead free. Amazon is too big for laws to apply, and its umbrella apparently covers foreign sellers on its platform. Another fun toy they sell is the "heated shower heads", a tankless water heater element integrat…

In 1968 Bolivia, the only way you could shower is with these heated heads, because there were no hot water tanks. 220v, with exposed connectors. So anyway I'm standing in the shower under one of these heads, feet in a puddle. I raise my arm to wash an armpit, and the back of my hand touches the bare connector. It tingled a bit.

Multiple people in the military in Iraq died in shower trailers on bases (2003-2008) due to improper wiring. I went into one where you could detect current in metal walls (not in the shower area, but an ungrounded piece of backsplash and shelving above sink...); I had someone stand in front of the door to keep people out and went over to the base electricians to yell at them.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#78

Post by angrygoat »

I've been shocked by one of these – I was setting up some computers, asked for an extension cord, got handed a male-to-male cord. Didn't notice until I plugged one end in, and grabbed the other while fishing around for it while looking. It never occurred to me that it might be male on both ends.

The shock was very painful but the RCD tripped and saved my life. I'm quite grateful to the regulators here in Australia that made them mandatory back int he 90s.

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#79

Post by hedora »

Honestly, they should just mandate a 240V generator port (with a grid cutoff interlock!) on main service boxes moving forward.

Ideally, there would be some different standard connector so that the port would only work with inverter-style generators that have constant frequency / voltage as load shifts around.

Otherwise, people would end up frying appliance computets with cheap generators.

Of course, this would lead to an identical headline, but the body of the article would warn about extreme equipment damage, not imminent death.

I have to admit I am kind of curious to know what these 110V cords do in practice. Are half the outlets on the other side of the 220 pair?

Re: CPSC warns consumers to stop using male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon

#80

Post by jvolkman »

TIPSIO wrote: post #74
kevinmchugh wrote: post #39

There's a wonderful kind of writing that pops up at hardware stores in response to annual searches for suicide cables. A couple examples here https://twitter.com/kobunheat/status/1336134415336964096 THESE ARE NOT MADE THEY SHOULD NEVER BE MADE has the kind of direct clarity of existential risk that they sought for with "This is not a place of honor. Nothing of value is here."

Really interesting... What are people doing with their lights where this would ever come up though? Edit: From reddit, a use case is found [1]: > They’re actually used my law enforcement whenever they do a raid and seize a computer. If they turn the computer off, they’ll have to try and get past a password. And if the hard drive is encrypted, they’re basically SOL. > This can be a real issue for things like drug deal…

Hung two strands of holiday lights in opposite directions.
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