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Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

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Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#182
post #35

I wonder if marketers could start exploiting this. Get something obviously innocent banned in a stupid way by algo, then use the outrage effect for promotion. They already kinda did this with people destroying stuff of companies that made some statements, this seems like the next step.

Ghostbuster's 2016's supposed "anti-feminism " campaign is an example of this. It's very common and has been forever, since at least newspapers.

Is there evidence that the misogyny was faked by the movie industry?

Or are we just assuming that all such reactions (e.g. the anti-black Ariel folks) are faked to generate support?

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#183
post #34

The problem is that no automatic method we have now will catch context. There is a difference between "Jews were murdered by Germans during war" and "Jews destroyed German economy before the war" that will not be recognized by any machine we have nowadays. The first is true, the second is bullshit, how algorithm can now this? More, even if Facebook employees humans to do moderation still for some contractor from Asia…

If anything you’re understating the problem.

The problem with “Jews destroyed German economy before the war” is that it’s extremely vague and difficult to verify. There’s no good basis for the claim, but it’s not even a historical detail that could be easily verified; it’s more of an overarching theoretical opinion.

As for “Jews were murdered by Germans during the war”, sure. That’s an extremely well documented fact. They were also murdered by Romanians, Lithuanians, Bulgarians, Hungarians, Ukrainians, and other collaborators, but in context, we know that the Germans were organizing the whole thing. We also know that there’s a different context today in 2022 where some people might want to emphasize and others might want to minimize the complicity of Ukrainian collaborators.

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#184
post #34

The problem is that no automatic method we have now will catch context. There is a difference between "Jews were murdered by Germans during war" and "Jews destroyed German economy before the war" that will not be recognized by any machine we have nowadays. The first is true, the second is bullshit, how algorithm can now this? More, even if Facebook employees humans to do moderation still for some contractor from Asia…

> At the end, when Napoleon lost, remains of Polish military units were sent to Haiti to help France to maintain their colonies. Just a minor correction, the Polish were sent to Haiti in 1802, way before Napoleon had started losing.

Yeah, Haiti broke away in a slave rebellion before Napoleon sold Louisiana to the United States to raise money for the war effort so it wouldn’t make any sense for the Polish to be sent to Haiti at the end of the war.

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#185
post #2

I was just talking to an author who published an ad on Facebook for their sci fi book. They had the word "beat" in the ad. The FB algo said that words intills people to violence, banned her account for 2 months, and kept all the ad money. Funny enough, her book is about the dangers of an algorithm-based AI supersystem... Facebook is the worst.

Quoted post unavailable.

There's another way for Facebook and other social media companies to make sure this doesn't happen without employing stupid algorithms that censor people. Drop the bots, hire a bunch of people to pretend to be ISIS or Stormers, and ban[0] everyone they come into contact with. Leave everyone else alone.

They won't do this. Why?

The way that social media is structured - and the way Facebook et all make their money - is to get as many people as possible on platform, get them addicted to the platform, and then show ads. One of the easiest ways to do this is to provoke and generate outrage - as you can see on Twitter, which basically exists to turn people into public figures and then into "villains of the day". This is also why their systems reject context; because stripping speech of its context is the easiest way to construct a villain of the day.

The reality is that these outrage groups actually tend to be really, really small and close-knit. There's a small handful of people who actually feed the algorithm new extremist content, and everyone else parrots them without thinking much of it because they're angry. Extremism only looks large and prevalent because social media is designed to create echo chambers and manufacture consent. And extremists just so happen to be Facebook's best customers - people who already have outrage to play to, who will spend hours on platform, and so on. Of course they aren't going to ban their whales!

However, an ineffective bot that just randomly bans things that sound vaguely extremist-like? That gives you the appearance of Doing Something, without actually doing it, and it falls in line with the usual Silicon Valley protocol of "if it's not worth doing at scale, it's not worth doing at all". Treating extremism like a weirdly-shaped spam problem gives social media companies cover and is how we get stupid bots that think a Holocaust movie is Nazi propaganda.

[0] I do not consider taking down the content of jihadis or neo-nazis to be censorship. Jihadis and neo-nazis are groups with explicit, stated goals to do violence to groups of people for what they say or believe. An ISIS beheading video is not an artistic statement or a political diatribe, it is a threat to other Muslims. "Get in line or you'll be next." Allowing this to be spread around as if it were speech accomplishes the goal of censoring non-extremists.

If you want to argue that tankies or ANTIFA do this too, fine, but the poster I was replying to was specifically pointing out right-wing extremism.

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#186

The real issue here isn't that an algorithm flagged it, but that a "human" reviewed it and upheld the ban. Either a human didn't actually review the film or there's a serious lack of training.

I think something has happened behind the scenes at Facebook where there are actually not really humans doing the secondary "review" or appeals process.

See my other comment on this article for another (less important) example. I'm guessing they're simply passing at least some % of them through a secondary automatic classification system.

Why would you let fairness get in the way of revenues?

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#187

I mean, that is also the first thought I had when I read the title, even before delving into the article. If instead of "beautiful blue eyes" it was "silky smooth pale white skin", would it then be different? For once I think Facebook is right. Poor choice of a film title, that, especially considering the theme of the film.

There were lots of people with beautiful blue eyes and silky smooth pale white skin that perished in the Holocaust... Eyeballing the difference between Ashkenazi and a regular person from Central or Eastern Europe is mission impossible.

No post body was provided.

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#188
Why not put the power in the hands of the users? If a person does not want to see a film that deals with race (generally), let them go and flip a switch in their settings to hide these from their view (and similar for whatever other subject may be of potential concern).

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#189
This is not an exception. This is the norm. All major social media platforms operate under the assumption that it's better to ban 100 innocent people than to let one "bad" person publish something. The scale of censorship is ming-boggling. The scale of denial and ignorance about censorship on HN is even more astounding.

The big lie of online censorship is that controversial cases where most people think the person "deserves" to be banned are unrelated and totally separate from cases like this one, where it's obvious the ban is preposterous to anyone possessing common sense. They are directly related. They are created by the same systems built under the same assumptions with the same mentality.

This is not going to be fixed by "better" algorithms, because it's not an issue with the quality of the algorithms in the firs place. The algorithms seem low-quality to you because you're judging them by a standard the company running them didn't use.

Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy

#190
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Furthermore, you can publish "The effects of the Jewish population on the 1930s German economy" which can be either a genuine bona-fide analysis, or something which essentially boils down to "Jews destroyed German economy before the war". I think the "reddit model" where you have smaller communities with community mods works much better than the Facebook or Twitter model where there's one "global community". Not that…

Reddit has a very bad antisemitism problem. It's a cesspool. By no means is reddit 'the model'. In practically any sub except the explicitly Jewish ones, I will find an avalanche of antisemitism on any post that touches on Judaism/Israel/Jews.

It's bad now, and only getting worse. The moderators of top subreddits (like PublicFreakout) are openly in favor of marginalizing Jews, they'll just use the word Zionist instead. You can report a comment like "Jews don't deserve to live" and Reddit will automatically respond within a few hours saying the comment didn't violate their content policy. You can visit the subreddit AntisemitismInReddit for hundreds more examples.
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