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US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

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Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#121

Post by vdqtp3 »

gambiting wrote: post #73
howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #39

Terrifying for only 2 reasons: 1. Any malicious person savvy enough to pull off a crime of interest to the Feds is smart enough to provide a wiped or burner phone to DHS/ICE, and they have to know this. So, what is the point in doing this if not to target law abiding citizens. 2. USGOV has a spotty track record of keeping this information secure. A foreign actor is likely to access this info eventually. As one former…

>>So, what is the point in doing this if not to target law abiding citizens. It's the old rule known to governments all over the world - there is no such thing as an innocent citizen, there is only a citizen who you haven't investigated enough. Call me cynical but storing ALL of your digital data allows the agencies to basically find something, anything, that will allow them to further blackmail you into complying. E…

"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." Cardinal Richelieu

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#122

Post by hedora »

jscipione wrote: post #111
hedora wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This program predates Biden. The fact that the Biden administration is cooperating with the senator (a Democrat) suggests the Biden administration doesn’t support the program very strongly. Most of this stuff was enabled by the patriot act, which was pushed through by George W Bush. Also, the Republican controlled Supreme Court recently ruled it is legal for states pass laws that explicitly ignore vote tallies moving…

Joe Biden wrote the Patriot Act. https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4876107/user-clip-joe-biden-w...

Good to know. Thanks. Hopefully he’s really mellowed out since then.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#123

Post by hackerlight »

johndfsgdgdfg wrote: post #3

The way US treats the migrants is human rights violation at the border. Now add this to the pile of atrocities committed by the border patrol and ICE. It's high time we should consider open border.

People ask "what will our descendants think we're currently doing that's horrific?". The usual response is eating meat. But another one will be closed borders. It is one of those shamefully morally abhorrent violations of individual freedoms that is fairly widely accepted as normal.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#124

Post by vdqtp3 »

UI_at_80x24 wrote: post #98
gambiting wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>So, what is the point in doing this if not to target law abiding citizens. It's the old rule known to governments all over the world - there is no such thing as an innocent citizen, there is only a citizen who you haven't investigated enough. Call me cynical but storing ALL of your digital data allows the agencies to basically find something, anything, that will allow them to further blackmail you into complying. E…

To add to your point, our laws are so overly broad that it is impossible to exist without breaking some law. (your point talks of 'digital data' my comment refers to real-life) From driving 1mph over the speed limit, to skipping FBI warnings on DVDs, to countless other "innocent" infractions. If they look hard enough they will find SOMETHING. And that's all they need.

Three Felonies a Day by Silverglate (ISBN 1594035229) and even https://twitter.com/CrimeADay make it obvious. Every citizen escapes prosecution only by the grace of Federal law enforcement.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#125

Post by Bakary »

unethical_ban wrote: post #112
Bakary wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not an acceptable answer in a number of countries.

What the fuck? Are you saying I would get denied entry to a country if I brought no phone or a new phone?

In some countries and contexts this is a possibility. It's not uncommon for countries to have a system where you essentially have to convince a human border guard that you are no threat with no clear guidelines. Having no phone or a phone with not enough data can be a problem in such a context.

The vast majority of border crossings across the world don't involve any questions about phones anyway, but if you are at the stage where they do the characteristics of your phone or lack thereof can piss off the person who determines whether you are allowed to enter. And if you are at that stage entry denial will probably not be solely based on your phone or lack thereof because there was probably a reason they starting asking about it in the first place.

These aren't purely hypothetical scenarios but real life examples of things that happened to people I know.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#126

Post by AaronM »

iamdamian wrote: post #19

Is there any significant effort in progress to combat this practice? I see that EFF has some old articles on the topic but I don't see anything current.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/08/ninth-circuit-goes-ste...

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#127

Post by colordrops »

howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #39

Terrifying for only 2 reasons: 1. Any malicious person savvy enough to pull off a crime of interest to the Feds is smart enough to provide a wiped or burner phone to DHS/ICE, and they have to know this. So, what is the point in doing this if not to target law abiding citizens. 2. USGOV has a spotty track record of keeping this information secure. A foreign actor is likely to access this info eventually. As one former…

Only 2?

3. How is this legal? Is it legal?

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#128

Post by xoa »

oneplane wrote: post #101
xoa wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As sibling comments have said already, rights must be defended, and clear eyed prep is a big part of the answer for individuals. Even just thinking it through a bit, while you have time. > That sounds great How does having your property confiscated for days/weeks and being arrested sound "great" to you? It's not great, it stinks. For some people it could even be ruinous. But it's also legal reality. Every single "rig…

Not everyone wants to spend their time on any of this. Some people want to go about their day as they please without having to deal with any of this. That's the entire goal of having a society.

>Not everyone wants to spend their time on any of this. Some people want to go about their day as they please without having to deal with any of this.

That's nice? They can choose to try to do that, and in turn they may well get stepped on. There is a rest of the world out there, not just us as individuals. It doesn't always conform on its own to our wishes.

>That's the entire goal of having a society.

"Society" isn't magic that just happens on its own. It's made up of its people and their actions. If enough of its people don't actually take action, then "society" is going to reflect that too. Society creates more slack and wiggle room, and collective action can help shield individuals. You see that right here, society and law is why there is even an absolute right to return, why someone cannot simply be jailed indefinitely on a whim, etc, which in turn are foundational in making it much less costly to try to work for more. But if you merely want to free ride, well, it may or may not work out.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#129

Post by freeflight »

KMnO4 wrote: post #5
jaarse wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From reading the directive it appears as though they don’t have an exemption for Americans: https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/PIA-CBP... Of course the official response is what you would expect: “CBP officials declined, however, to answer questions about how many Americans’ phone records are in the database, how many searches have been run or how long the practice has gone on, saying it has made no…

> national security implications There’s nothing more American than spying on your own people and blaming it on terrorists.

Or make them spy on each other to find even more "terrorists" [0]

[0] https://www.dhs.gov/see-something-say-something

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#130

Post by 988747 »

howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #39

Terrifying for only 2 reasons: 1. Any malicious person savvy enough to pull off a crime of interest to the Feds is smart enough to provide a wiped or burner phone to DHS/ICE, and they have to know this. So, what is the point in doing this if not to target law abiding citizens. 2. USGOV has a spotty track record of keeping this information secure. A foreign actor is likely to access this info eventually. As one former…

Haha, just 5 minutes ago I read a story about Iranian 'hacker' who wrote a ransomware note in Microsoft Word, so the file metadata contained his full name :)
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