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Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

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Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#491

Post by MikePlacid »

lultimouomo wrote: post #322
MikePlacid wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine any software company CEO nowadays saying that out loud, no matter what they privately thought. A daughter of my friend was not very happy in her job: a Silicon Valley company hired her as a security pro, but was using as a coder, which she hates. She was going to leave, but decided to wait ten months or so until her stock options vested. She and a big group of other engineers were fired right before the ves…

> She was going to leave, but decided to wait ten months or so until her stock options vested. She and a big group of other engineers were fired right before the vesting moment. I'm not an expert in the Silicon Valley ethos, but to me it sounds that both your friend's daughter and the company were playing the same game: trying to extract the most value from the other party without actually having a long term commitme…

> The company had the upper hand, but can she really complain?

She is a bright girl, so she is not actually complaining, she knew the risks and trade offs. It was her first job after a college, btw. It’s me who is a bit bothered by her story. You see:

1. She was hired to improve diversity targets (her estimate).

2. After she was hired, her brains were ignored - a rather painful situation for a person with brains.

Would have this bright girl been better of if we as society put less pressure on companies to hire girls?

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#492

Post by JohnFen »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #482
JohnFen wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it depends on your definition of "fair". You're going by the market definition -- but the market definition of "fair" is often quite unfair by other definitions.

Considering that markets exist whenever 2 or more individuals gather, without regard to any other factors… it’s pretty much a fundamental force like gravity. In fact even ant colonies experience market forces so it’s practically impossible for it to not exist. Does it matter if a lot of folks have different definitions of gravity?

> Considering that markets exist whenever 2 or more individuals gather

In the most general sense of "market", this is not wrong. However, you're talking from the point of view of a rather specific market theory. That market theory is not a fundamental force, it's just one of many ways of doing things.

It also has a very narrow definition of "fair", which makes sense within its own world, but I would argue is not generalizable outside of that world.

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#493

Post by moistly »

ars wrote: post #470
moistly wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are spreading lies and disinformation. > Almost All Teens in ICU With COVID Were Unvaccinated: Study https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/2022011... > Third of teens hospitalized for COVID-19 need ICU care; CDC chief urges youth to get vaccinated https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/third-of... > Throughout the periods of Delta and Omicron predominance, hospitalization rates remaine…

You are misreading that study: Only 25% (299/1222) of the children and teens in the study were vaccinated, and yet only 7 deaths over 4 months in 23 states. The conclusion is that the vaccine can work, and yet be unnecessary. Even with 75% unvaccinated, there were barely any deaths. Kids simply do not need the vaccine. Pay attention to how every one of the articles you linked simply glosses over the tiny number of pa…

> Kids simply do not need the vaccine

Oh for fucks sake.

> Almost All Teens in ICU With COVID Were Unvaccinated: Study

> Third of teens hospitalized for COVID-19 need ICU care; CDC chief urges youth to get vaccinated

> Throughout the periods of Delta and Omicron predominance, hospitalization rates remained lower among fully vaccinated adolescents aged 12–17 years than among unvaccinated adolescents.

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#494

Post by tormeh »

KaiserPro wrote: post #242
nomel wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost, surely. Paying for 10 engineers is much cheaper than paying for them and the IP they helped produce over the years, especially if you're not interested in that IP.

Aquihires can be very destructive. You end up with either the whole company, or you piss off the people that you wanted when you fire their co-workers. It also pulls in an almost complete graph of employees who are isolated from the new parent company. Its much better to pull off the people that you want, and get them to join willingly, as they tend to adopt the culture/learn better when in isolation.

Cuts both ways. You also get a fully functioning, self-contained team or 10. That can be attractive.

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#495

Post by FunnyBadger »

There's a mathematical model for this. It doesn't require 50% leaving to destroy a company.

First you have Price's Law - half the people actually doing work rises with the square root of the total employee count. It's a variant of Pareto law. So as you grown bigger, the critical path of viable operation depends on fewer and fewer people per capita.

That group is also the group who first to see problems and least likely to put up with BS so they are the first to leave when things go downhill. The bigger the organization, the fewer people who need to leave to destroy it.

This is one of several dynamics that assure a role of startups and entrepreneurs because large companies can never be safe or stable or eternal.

Related to this: most startups last no more than 5 years but large corporations seldom live beyond 20-25 years. The handful of corporations that do are super rare and mostly living on borrowed time. Usually the only thing keeping larger companies around beyond 20-25 is one or a few very charismatic leaders/executives - as soon as they go, it comes crashing down. Hewlett-Packard is a classic example of this.

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#496

Post by swyx »

pryelluw wrote: post #453
swyx wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i mean, 2m a year passive income, that sounds like a pretty good space to be in. it doesnt seem like you have any particular loyalty to it and its closed so... what was the business? you dont have to name it, im just curious economics-wise what let this business exist on autopilot

It wasn’t passive income. The business was simple enough and he had managed to hire good people. It would run by itself pretty much. It wasn’t a typical startup. Just a small business that sold a software as a service. The product revolved around making sales easier. The owner was a long time sales person.

thanks for the elaboration :)

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#497

Post by MrMember »

coolandsmartrr wrote: post #65
orange_joe wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what's incredible about this is that Activision remains an industry leader whereas I'm not entirely sure if Atari even still exists.

Looks like they were facing extinction in 1991 until now-CEO Bobby Kotick took over. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activision#Purchase_by_Bobby_K...

>Kotick and additional investors bought Mediagenic for approximately $500,000 in 1991.

Wow,that's one hell of a successful investment.

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#498

Post by mdcds »

FunnyBadger wrote: post #495

There's a mathematical model for this. It doesn't require 50% leaving to destroy a company. First you have Price's Law - half the people actually doing work rises with the square root of the total employee count. It's a variant of Pareto law. So as you grown bigger, the critical path of viable operation depends on fewer and fewer people per capita. That group is also the group who first to see problems and least like…

> First you have Price's Law - half the people actually doing work rises with the square root of the total employee count. It's a variant of Pareto law. So as you grown bigger, the critical path of viable operation depends on fewer and fewer people per capita.

Huh, interesting point. Natural conclusion is that as companies grow, they become more and more fragile to core people leaving.

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#499

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #482
JohnFen wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it depends on your definition of "fair". You're going by the market definition -- but the market definition of "fair" is often quite unfair by other definitions.

Considering that markets exist whenever 2 or more individuals gather, without regard to any other factors… it’s pretty much a fundamental force like gravity. In fact even ant colonies experience market forces so it’s practically impossible for it to not exist. Does it matter if a lot of folks have different definitions of gravity?

Markets are absolutely nothing like fundamental physical forces like gravity.

Read David Greaber.

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#500

Post by robertlagrant »

heavyset_go wrote: post #457
robertlagrant wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. But they don't assess themselves :)

In my experience, management tends to protect themselves and go up to bat for each other, especially when things can be blamed on their subordinates.

This isn't about blame, though. Even if for some reason you feel the need to care about blame passed around in a company after you've left, I would say it's still worse to strike when you can leave.

Unless you're suggesting that being blamed by management is intrinsically important and going on strike is going to be less blamed by management? I would just disagree with every aspect of that statement.

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