Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#281

Post by jongjong » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 4:03 PM UTC

yonaguska wrote: post #277

jongjong wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably have a rich, well connected daddy. For normal people, $250k is probably as high as you can possibly go. I also have experience with distributed systems, worked 80 hours a week for 10 years straight and built several popular open source projects and I can't get past $80k... Almost feels like a conspiracy against me at this stage but I suspect it just comes down to not having a rich daddy who is connected…

> worked 80 hours a week for 10 years straight > Almost feels like a conspiracy against me You are conspiring against yourself. How did you put in that much work for that long and not switch jobs? It sounds like you chronically undervalued yourself and stayed in bad positions as a result. Hard work only pays off if you find someone to pay you. If you are stuck at a crappy job, work only hard enough to impress your co…

I did switch jobs 10 times in 12 years and constantly asked for more raises, bargained hard during hiring and always delivered above and beyond. I was always highly regarded by my colleagues. Doesn't matter. Company founders usually treated me terribly. In my last job, the founders said that I was essential but then when I asked for a raise plus more responsibilities and told them that it was a deal breaker otherwise, they refused. In spite of being flush with millions of funding. The CTO even threatened with violence. Their business has been going downhill since I left and the CTO has since turned members of the industry against me as revenge for leaving... In spite of the fact that my work exceeded expectations (by the CTO's own admission). To rub salt into the wound, their company was using an open source project which I had built for free (a popular project with almost 6k stars on GitHub).

You're jumping to conclusions. Society does not work how you think.

The fact that you cannot conceive the system as unmeritocratic and try to blame me without knowing anything about me suggests that you are probably one of the lucky few who has been given special treatment. Maybe in your peer group, one would HAVE to have done something incorrectly to end up in my situation. In my peer group, nobody ever succeeds no matter how good they are or what they do. I suspect that the difference in perception is likely rooted in widespread algorithm-based discrimination based on your social connections to rich or powerful people.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#282

Post by giantg2 » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 4:12 PM UTC

juve1996 wrote: post #280

giantg2 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do they get around federal FMLA requirements to fire people over the medical time? Sign me up! A friend of a friend was a diesel electric mechanic making $85k starting 14 years ago, and no college cost. It took me 8 or more years and a masters to hit that comp as a dev. My company manages some of the rail road 401ks and they are highly compensated. And they're unionized, unlike devs, which I see as a plus.

FMLA is not a get out of jail free card. You don't get paid, it has strict requirements, and has an approval process. Ahh yes the famous friend that "makes all this money". Go ahead, sign up. No one is stopping you. "I know a guy who made billions in crypto!" Yea, we all do. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/installation-maintenance-and-repair/... People lie like crazy about wages. The numbers don't. > My company manages some…

That's diesel service. It's half of being a diesel electric mechanic. Of course that number is lower because of all the regular diesel mechanics dragging it down.

"For me? I'll be paid more, for way less hours, with way more benefits, remote work, etc."

Go ahead, lord over us how much better you are. I'll live in the real world where the median dev salary is $110k, the work is boring, the company screws you over, and the boss is an asshole.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#283

Post by giantg2 » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 4:17 PM UTC

abduhl wrote: post #257

giantg2 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they have crushing expectations placed on them and are expected to be connected 24/7?

I was at a site after a crane collapsed seriously injuring 3 people including one guy who took a cable to the face and, as far as I know, never regained use of his eye. The crane operator survived without injury. He’s probably still making picks despite being a proximate cause for 3 of his friends’ permanent life altering injuries. So in a sense they do have crushing expectations placed on them, except these expectat…

I guess I should have worded ir differently. My problem is that responsibilities are not well defined, expectations are vague and fluid, and this basically makes it impossible to know if you're doing well or not. The requirements of the crane job are much more clear and don't have the same oppressive outcomes. And yes, software bugs can still ruin people's lives or kill them too.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#284

Post by finikytou » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 4:22 PM UTC

jltsiren wrote: post #203

finikytou wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is not grim but getting a family-home with a dev salary is out of the picture for many western europeans. it wasn't the case one generation ago. american dev can definitly afford a house even in HCOL cities. for a similar job at AWS or Google you getting 550k+ in NYC vs 200k in London or Paris. just looking at real estate (which is number 1 cost) it is worth moving to NYC. just to give you an idea: MIDTOWN next to…

London and Paris are expensive, but they are not the norm. Home ownership is still affordable to dual-income middle-class families in Western Europe, and there are plenty of nice cities to choose from. In many larger cities, central locations are ridiculously expensive. Once you get further away from the center, prices drop quickly. Because the society is less car-centric, location has a bigger impact on home prices…

well city center or further in the city is 10kSQM in paris minimum that still puts the house into unaffordable territory with a european salary of ~80k for a senior dev. germany is a bit different because they have multiple job cities but take other countries. London vs other english cities job market will be night and day. Same for paris. You just don't get the same opportunities in smaller cities. Spain same. Portugal same. and the list goes on.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#285

Post by thiht » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 4:26 PM UTC

mywittyname wrote: post #228

omni wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't afford an apartment on 250K you need to take a serious look at your spending and figure out what you actually want to prioritize. Sure, you won't be picking up a $3M apartment overlooking Central Park, but toooooons of Brooklyn and Queens should be affordable to you with that level of income. I got a mortgage a few years ago when I was only pulling down $180K and I was approved for up to $1MM loan, most…

I don't think this person is claiming to make 250k. They probably used that as a reference figure because the root post uses that as a reference point. Most likely this person makes a more median tech salary in the mid 100s.

> never been able to clear more than 250k - moved from coding to mgmt but still cant break 250

Even though making $100k fits this description, it would be like saying Julius Caesar died more than 10 years ago. that's technically true but no one would say that.

It's implied from the part I cited he makes around 250k, maybe fluctuating between 230 and 240

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#286

Post by ajkjk » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 4:27 PM UTC

MisterSandman wrote: post #275

ajkjk wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, you should study a bit. That doesn't mean you have to 'grind leetcode' or anything. I usually go implement a couple data structures (a heap and a graph search, or something) and then feel pretty good. Typical interview questions just aren't that hard and if you aren't too nervous about it you can figure them out live if you know basic computer science.

As a university student looking for internships, I highly disagree. I've taken the highest level DSA course my university offers and it's nowhere near enough to tackle interviews from top tech companies. It's not about knowing how to implement DFS. Its about understanding the problem and requirements quick enough, then figuring out what DSA to use, and then doing it quick enough within the time limit.

I feel like all of that is pretty easy if you solve like 3 DFS problems, which I at least did in my classwork.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#287

Post by mywittyname » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 4:28 PM UTC

jollyllama wrote: post #131

yrgulation wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats odd. I know loads of lawyers living in mansions while loads of “highly paid” developers live with housemates, or rent tiny homes. If anything, software development pay has reached construction worker pay. At least we dont have to sit out in the cold.

Yep. More precisely, construction worker pay has reached software developer pay, outside of the SV world.

I'm not so sure of this. I have lots of trade friends/acquaintances/family members because my family runs a construction business. I know lots of people in the trades who are struggling and can't afford to own a house in the "cheap" midwest. Some are 30 and have been at it for several years and still live with their parents or shake up 6+ to a rented 3 bedroom.

They are skilled too, mechanics, electricians, welders.

The old dudes running the business make bank, for sure. But the people turning the wrenches are still getting the shaft.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#288

Post by purpleblue » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 4:38 PM UTC

moralestapia wrote: post #218

purpleblue wrote: post #211

10 years ago I was making 145k base salary. This year I'm making 220k base salary. Both as Senior Software Engineer. I don't think they are stagnating at all.

Could you provide more details so I can add to my anecdata? :) Is that on the same company? Different company but the same role? Or just job hopping here and there?

Different company, same role as senior software engineer. In 10 years I've had 4 jobs, although one was only for 6 months, and I recently started a new job.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#289

Post by wnolens » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 4:39 PM UTC

creativemonkeys wrote: post #225

wnolens wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swallow the leetcode prep slowly over time, and then FAANG. Play the startup lottery (potentially high equity that will pay off in 5-10y). Try a hedge fund (high base). Move up the management ladder. Side gig product or sell a course on something you have unique expertise in. Move to Philly!

I'm moving to PA, so out of curiosity, why are you recommending to move to Philly?

I assumed OP has a relatively high cost of living in NY, and can work remotely (either at current job or an equivalently paying one).

Then Philly is close-by (can still get to NY for friends/family, similar east coast culture), still a cool city (I had a lot of fun visiting), and MUCH lower cost of living. I saw nice houses there in cool neighborhoods for 300k. It made me strongly consider the emotional cost of starting over in yet another city, just to be able to own where I live and have it be very comfortable.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#290

Post by juve1996 » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 4:40 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #282

juve1996 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FMLA is not a get out of jail free card. You don't get paid, it has strict requirements, and has an approval process. Ahh yes the famous friend that "makes all this money". Go ahead, sign up. No one is stopping you. "I know a guy who made billions in crypto!" Yea, we all do. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/installation-maintenance-and-repair/... People lie like crazy about wages. The numbers don't. > My company manages some…

That's diesel service. It's half of being a diesel electric mechanic. Of course that number is lower because of all the regular diesel mechanics dragging it down. "For me? I'll be paid more, for way less hours, with way more benefits, remote work, etc." Go ahead, lord over us how much better you are. I'll live in the real world where the median dev salary is $110k, the work is boring, the company screws you over, and…

Feel free to provide another source other than your mythical friend. If it is that high, then there aren't many jobs there.

I grew up in a blue collar household. My grandfather died of cancer he got from working in a steel mill, my dad has bad knees from working as a laborer (now an electrician.) He worked his life away to provide a better life for me. It's not about being "better." or elitism - It's just simple - cost/benefit analysis.

The work is hard, the pay isn't as good. It takes way more hours for equivalent wages. You're location locked. And it taxes your body. It's not about being better. But for most, the numbers don't lie. The facts are the facts.

> Go ahead, lord over us how much better you are. I'll live in the real world where the median dev salary is $110k, the work is boring, the company screws you over, and the boss is an asshole.

Haha if you think there aren't bad bosses in the trades...well, honestly, just shows me where you're at in your life.

Good luck! It may be the best move you can make. Lots of people have found success there, you can too. I remember when I was less mature, I always thought grass was greener. Turns out, it isn't always. Go figure it out for you.