Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#271

Post by lallysingh » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 3:30 PM UTC

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #220

ajkjk wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno where everyone got the idea that Leetcode is required for this stuff. You learn everything you need to pass these interviews in a 101 or 102 level algorithms/data structures class.

This is weird because I work at FAANG and one of the things that everyone acknowledges is that we all studied to get past the damn interview loop. Yes it is covered in classes, there is nothing new but at the very least you need to brush up.

Agreed, the leetcode stuff is unnecessary. I never did for my FAANG job. Really just the following in depth: hash tables, heaps, string manipulation, 5 min of O(n), and then a review pass through other algos/data structures.

There was a joke that you just had to say "hash tables" 3x fast and you'd just get an offer. So many interview questions get torn apart by a good hash application.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#272

Post by varispeed » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 3:33 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #208

varispeed wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not against the spirit of the law. The deemed employer is suppose to pay tax at source _on_behalf_ of deemed employee. So, if someone has been found to be in fact in scope of IR35 and now the Fee Payer has to pay the tax - this is the tax _on_behalf_ of the deemed employee. They can legally and ethically claim it back from the resource, because this is _their_ personal tax. The grey area could be the fine its…

Every one of those clauses that I've seen or heard about also tried to make the contractor liable for all of the employer obligations: Employer NI, Apprenticeship Levy if applicable, and usually some blanket term that covers any other expenses they incur dealing with it. That is most definitely not in the spirit of the law. Paying the personal taxes is obviously a different matter. Even then it's usually the client s…

You are assuming that HMRC and Treasury act in a good faith. The purpose of these changes is to stop small business from operating without explicitly saying so (as that could bring a bad PR, so they use their Behavioural Science Unit to frame it as anti-tax avoidance law and their messaging is designed to ensure population sees these businesses as cheaters etc.) - a nudge technique.

Reality is that it is always the weakest entity in the chain that pays - see Loan Charge scandal for instance, where HMRC claims advisers, accountants, promoters of schemes and scheme operators did nothing wrong and the victims are on the hook to pay.

Personal example I have is with my friend who is a freelance care worker. She got a gig from an agency under a condition that she has to sign up for an umbrella from their Preferred Supplier List, as they deem it inside IR35. She was desperate to get the gig, so she agreed. Turns out the umbrella didn't pay tax on her behalf to HMRC but simply pocketed it. She was getting payslips showing correct deductions, but HMRC never got the money. The umbrella closed before she could find out. Then HMRC sent threatening letter that she is using a tax avoidance scheme. Guess what happened? HMRC decided to recover the missing tax through the tax code, so she barely can make ends meet from her current gig. She has no money to go after that umbrella (when I looked up, the owners are living in Asia) so there is that.

If what you saying is true, then HMRC would have gone after the umbrella, but they didn't - it's easier to make the worker pay. So the Fee Payer trying to recover money would have done nothing different than HMRC is doing themselves.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#273

Post by 411111111111111 » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 3:34 PM UTC

navjack27 wrote: post #260

It would be pretty cool of teachers made that kind of salary... Teachers of all grades and all schools...

The only way this would make economic sense would be quite immoral from my point of view, so honest question:

why should an organisation pay them such salaries, unless they can effectively enslave the taught pupils until they've made that money back?

Or are you arguing that it should be done through socialism and taxes? In that case, whats the rationale for that? The society won't gain significant value from this, and would have significantly less money available for other things. Do keep in mind that teachers usually still get more money then the average salary while having significantly more time off-work.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#274

Post by Victerius » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 3:34 PM UTC

jsharf wrote: post #267

Victerius wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A little mentioned dynamic is that tech salaries can't be too much out-of-sync with non-tech salaries, because overpriced housing bought up by SWEs making 300K+ eventually leads to non-SWEs demanding wage increases to keep up with rent payments and/or remain able to save for a downpayment on newly priced homes. In turn, the lower disposable income from workers being squeezed by housing costs is lowering growth and te…

It seems like this only affects areas where tech workers make up a lot of the population, like the bay area. Also, it assumes that non-tech workers won't just move to cheaper areas.

> Also, it assumes that non-tech workers won't just move to cheaper areas

Which creates non-tech labor shortages in the original HCOL area and puts upward pressure on non-tech wages and downward pressure on tech wages, as non-tech wages are ultimately paid by the spending of everybody, including tech workers, who consume more than non-tech workers by virtue of simply earning more.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#275

Post by MisterSandman » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

ajkjk wrote: post #254

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is weird because I work at FAANG and one of the things that everyone acknowledges is that we all studied to get past the damn interview loop. Yes it is covered in classes, there is nothing new but at the very least you need to brush up.

Sure, you should study a bit. That doesn't mean you have to 'grind leetcode' or anything. I usually go implement a couple data structures (a heap and a graph search, or something) and then feel pretty good. Typical interview questions just aren't that hard and if you aren't too nervous about it you can figure them out live if you know basic computer science.

As a university student looking for internships, I highly disagree. I've taken the highest level DSA course my university offers and it's nowhere near enough to tackle interviews from top tech companies.

It's not about knowing how to implement DFS. Its about understanding the problem and requirements quick enough, then figuring out what DSA to use, and then doing it quick enough within the time limit.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#276

Post by baron816 » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 3:40 PM UTC

aynyc wrote: post #194

baron816 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t study leetcode. If you want to work at FAANG, get some interviews with them. You may discover that you really didn’t need to spend days studying stuff that’s not relevant to your job. At the very least, you’ll get some interview practice and figure out what you do need to study. Those companies will let you interview again and again after a 6-12 month break. Also, companies like Stripe and Airbnb also pay compe…

If you want to work at FAANG, get some interviews with them. That requires Leetcode, no? Am I missing something?

I work at a FAANG as a SWE. Never spent more than 5 minute on Leetcode. I do mostly frontend, but I doubt a manager’s interview would be very different from an algorithms coding perspective.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#277

Post by yonaguska » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 3:47 PM UTC

jongjong wrote: post #173

ny-anon wrote: post #167

Going anon for this I grew up poor, got in trouble with the law at 18 - but was coding since I was 9, now I have been writing software for 20+ years professionally, no degree, and have never been able to clear more than 250k - moved from coding to mgmt but still cant break 250. I looked at changing companies to a FAANG but haven’t been able to dedicate the massive amount of time needed to prep for the algo whiteboard…

They probably have a rich, well connected daddy. For normal people, $250k is probably as high as you can possibly go. I also have experience with distributed systems, worked 80 hours a week for 10 years straight and built several popular open source projects and I can't get past $80k... Almost feels like a conspiracy against me at this stage but I suspect it just comes down to not having a rich daddy who is connected…

> worked 80 hours a week for 10 years straight

> Almost feels like a conspiracy against me

You are conspiring against yourself. How did you put in that much work for that long and not switch jobs? It sounds like you chronically undervalued yourself and stayed in bad positions as a result. Hard work only pays off if you find someone to pay you. If you are stuck at a crappy job, work only hard enough to impress your colleagues that are about to leave. Then leverage that reputation to also make your exit. Failing that, just start over and find a new job with no prior connections.

If you're at 80k, you are a loooong way from the shenanigans that go on at executive level work. And you're right, there are politics and it is cutthroat, but again... that's not something most devs will encounter until they're leading large teams.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#278

Post by yardie » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 3:55 PM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #159

yardie wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worked there as well and our son was constantly haranguing me about wanting to move back. Had to sit him down and explain what my compensation after taxes were and the cost of living compared to the US. He only remembers France as where his family and former schoolmates are.

:-( We're looking at NL specifically so our kids can have some freedom, ride their bikes and take public transport, and not be prisoners of suburbia. But the wages are pretty terrible; I've been working remote for US companies (set up my own consulting firm so invoicing is easy) and that's worked pretty well. We'll see if the recession kills it.

Possibly the opposite! The Euro drop in price has made it competitive for US companies to hire engineers in Europe. The only con is the difference in timezone. Central/South America still has that advantage.

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#279

Post by colinmhayes » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 3:56 PM UTC

yrgulation wrote: post #62

marcinzm wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Highly paid as a developer means you're making $400k+ with less than 10 years under your belt. Those people don't generally live with roommates unless they're aiming for aggressive FIRE.

One should factor in taxes, vesting times and what % is actually yours of those shares. Two websites i quickly used for calculating take home pay showed 8000-9000 usd per month. I may be wrong but it would seem like that’s rather low. I know people in east europe making almost that after tax on a way lower salary / daily rate.

You think taxes are 70-80%?

Re: Ask HN: Have tech salaries been stagnant for the past decade?

#280

Post by juve1996 » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 3:59 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #239

juve1996 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A crucial issue in the dispute is a points-based attendance policy adopted by some of the largest carriers earlier this year. Those policies penalize workers, up to termination, for going to routine doctor’s visits or attending to family emergencies. Conductors and engineers say that they can be on call for 14 consecutive days without a break and that they do not receive a single sick day, paid or unpaid. “All we’re…

So how do they get around federal FMLA requirements to fire people over the medical time? Sign me up! A friend of a friend was a diesel electric mechanic making $85k starting 14 years ago, and no college cost. It took me 8 or more years and a masters to hit that comp as a dev. My company manages some of the rail road 401ks and they are highly compensated. And they're unionized, unlike devs, which I see as a plus.

FMLA is not a get out of jail free card. You don't get paid, it has strict requirements, and has an approval process.

Ahh yes the famous friend that "makes all this money". Go ahead, sign up. No one is stopping you. "I know a guy who made billions in crypto!" Yea, we all do.

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/installation-maintenance-and-repair/...

People lie like crazy about wages. The numbers don't.

> My company manages some of the rail road 401ks and they are highly compensated. And they're unionized, unlike devs, which I see as a plus.

Sure. Overtime pay is a great. Being away from family all the time, working odd hours, yea, if you can handle it, go for it, it can be rewarding for a certain type of person. But remember - OT goes by seniority in the union.

For me? I'll be paid more, for way less hours, with way more benefits, remote work, etc. But if you don't want that, go ahead. Some people do better in those jobs.