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Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

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Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#481

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

astura wrote: post #468
jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm giving a simplified version, and also avoiding disclosing some details that might blow back on my friend. It was considerably more nasty than that article portrays via the quotes.

Except you basically said "they quit solely because of money" and the article basically says "it wasn't at all about the money." Those are very different things. One isn't a "simplified" version of the other.

The money was definitely the root issue. I can't say more without sharing things that could blow back on a friend. Either you believe me or you don't.

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#482

Post by MichaelZuo »

JohnFen wrote: post #449
golergka wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's exactly the same statement. Fair cost of something IS the opportunity cost of buying the same thing from someone else.

Well, it depends on your definition of "fair". You're going by the market definition -- but the market definition of "fair" is often quite unfair by other definitions.

Considering that markets exist whenever 2 or more individuals gather, without regard to any other factors… it’s pretty much a fundamental force like gravity. In fact even ant colonies experience market forces so it’s practically impossible for it to not exist.

Does it matter if a lot of folks have different definitions of gravity?

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#484

Post by ikiris »

para_parolu wrote: post #188
ikiris wrote: post #179

Ubiquity. They're just a software zombie shambling on at this point.

Wait, what happened?

Just one example: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubiquiti/comments/scqlg3/what_happe...

the software is basically unupdated for quite some time outside of their new cloud only inferior products, and i've tried reporting bugs to the support multiple times and every time they just are clueless, drop the issue entirely, or find some trivial way to argue its not actually their fault when it clearly is, like an on demand bgp crash under specific common private as peernig config as one example.

They had a wonderful product for the price point in multiple areas, and basically all their replacements have been inferior and often flaky.

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#485

Post by lultimouomo »

wink wrote: post #329
lultimouomo wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She was going to leave, but decided to wait ten months or so until her stock options vested. She and a big group of other engineers were fired right before the vesting moment. I'm not an expert in the Silicon Valley ethos, but to me it sounds that both your friend's daughter and the company were playing the same game: trying to extract the most value from the other party without actually having a long term commitme…

You are entitled to hate your job and still do what you're being asked. For lack of knowledge about more facts we should assume the friend was doing the job.

She also most probably had an at-will contract, so the company was entitled to let her go whenever they liked.

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#486

Post by robinsoh »

hollywood_court wrote: post #438
robinsoh wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was a British project management firm and it was the first and only time I ever experienced anything like that. It wouldn't be the most ideal situation for me, but they seem eager and happy to be there. What was the name of the project management firm? I am curious how you determined that they seemed eager and happy to be there. > I don't believe it should be compared to slavery since they chose to be there and…

I'm not going to dox myself by revealing the firm; I believe I was the only American on site at the time and I was certainly the only one performing millwork installation. I determined they were happy and eager because I spent each evening with them eating and watching soccer. I was down there during Christmas, and Liat airlines happened to go on strike so I was stranded there for 3 additional days. They made me feel…

> I determined they were happy and eager because I spent each evening with them eating and watching soccer. I was down there during Christmas, and Liat airlines happened to go on strike so I was stranded there for 3 additional days. They made me feel very welcomed. I would spend the evening with them and then walk the ~2 miles back to the small house that was rented for me

In my opinion, this reminds me of a course I took about ethics. Slave owners and slave traders would say their slaves were happy because they would sing while working and play games like jump rope and hopscotch. The owners would also say their slaves loved them, especially the ones that were 'house slaves' that tended to be young women. A good example of that would be Thomas Jefferson and the underage child, Sally Hemmings who had his children. More recently Qatari companies caught using indentured/slave labor to build the FIFA stadium made similar remarks about their 'workers'.

Thank you for sharing your experience. It convinces me that people can easily find ways to convince themselves everything is fine.

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#487

Post by rexreed »

Aloha wrote: post #467
systemvoltage wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is whether we tolerate assholes for their inventions and brilliancy? What material damage his asshole-ness has caused compared to the benefits he provided to the world? It is quite overwhelmingly clear. My take is that these are the people that herald the western civilization. The misfits, the weirdos and the, yes, assholes. They have almost zero chance to convince everyone of their twisted views of Euge…

Shockley is the exception to the 'tolerating assholes' rule, he was far enough outside the rails that he was largely shunned by his peers, subordinates, and everyone else.

But not Stanford University, where he continued to teach other students and be a professor until his retirement, and on whose website Shockley still prominently is posted: https://engineering.stanford.edu/people/william-shockley

So perhaps there are communities smack dab in the heart of Silicon Valley startup ecosystem that do tolerate even the most extreme assholes, still. It seems personal asshole-like behavior is tolerated or ignored in lieu of their "other contributions".

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#488

Post by picsao »

jollybean wrote: post #471
dawnbreez wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you can call it IP theft, I can call it wage theft. The article quotes one of the devs as saying they had "unpaid milestones", which reads an awful lot like the "major publisher" he didn't want to name for legal reasons had violated the one term that mattered: the part where they pay for the game. The lesson to take away here, for management, is that you can't get away with everything forever. Whether you vie…

The lesson for 'management' is get better contracts and don't invest and develop people who will walk out with your stuff. Item 'A' is a bit more reasonable, people not getting paid is bad. But item 'B' is not. Sorry, you don't just get to ask for a better deal after the fact, because it finally worked out and now in 20/20 hindsight you want a cut.

No post body was provided.

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#489

Post by shp0ngle »

zo1 wrote: post #280
vintermann wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the Atari name exists today. Famous defunct company names regularly get bought by entities wanting to cash out whatever goodwill or positive associations still left in them. Would-be buyers with less extractive ambitions can't compete in the auctions. So no, Atari doesn't exist today, what exists is a company wearing Atari's skin as a suit, in order to fool you. Don't be fooled by names without the organisational…

Another famous example of this "brand" re-use that I only recently found out about: AEG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AEG

Yeah but Electrolux is still a good brand.

Better example is AKG which used to be well respected for making high-quality headphones, until Samsung bought their parent company and started just using their logo from 2017 on cheap crap.

The original engineers formed a different company Austrian Audio (no article on wiki apparently)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AKG_(company)

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#490

Post by valdiorn »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #168
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #63

I worked for a company big enough to be in the HN headlines (sorry, have to stay somewhat anonymous) where development virtually stalled for a couple years after a mass exodus event. The CEO went on a rampage and fired some people on the spot for something they weren’t even responsible for, which destroyed the already fragile morale and created a steady exodus of good talent over a couple of years. It didn’t kill the…

I honestly, can't believe how many companies I've seen that have had the problem with new hires churning really quick. When I lived in the UK, I saw one company that was like that. When I moved to Berlin, it's pretty much been like that at most companies. Various reasons from the tech being crap, the culture being crap, or managers being crap. While the company normally survives for a while, since if you have the cas…

Ah yes, the companies with bimodal tenure distribution; it's either 3 months or 13 years, and nobody with 3 years. You either accept the bullshit and stick around, or you get out of there fast.
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