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Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

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Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#421

Post by scarface74 »

ethbr0 wrote: post #414
scarface74 wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either way, just like I wouldn’t want a religious zealot who has convictions about performing an abortion while my wife is laying their bleeding, I wouldn’t trust the judgement of an anti-vaxxer. One of my best friends who lived in Seattle whose wife did have complications during pregnancy. He told his doctor that in no uncertain terms if they had to make a choice between his wife and his unborn son, to save his wife…

As the product of a reproductive therapy that certain people at one time would have banned, I can sympathize. To me the big difference is whether they're "I should not be vaccinated" or "Everyone should not be vaccinated." The former doesn't always mean belief in the latter. So I look at someone being unvaccinated more like choosing to wear a spinning propeller hat to work every day... it's weird, and it makes me jud…

As a health care professional, you choosing to be anti-vaxxer tells me a lot about your judgment in the field I’m seeking your expert advice and it probably means that you don’t care about coming to work with Covid and getting other people sick.

If you’re an anti vaxxer coworker, whatever. Your judgment about the vaccine doesn’t affect their ability to write good code. But if they were an Oracle fan…

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#422

Post by Mc91 »

gfxgirl wrote: post #210
zomgbbq wrote: post #25

Atari in 1983 went from the leader in video game production to completely imploding. In 1979, four of their best programmers left after demanding equity in the sales and were refused. Their CEO Ray Kassar famously said, "You’re no more important to those projects than the person on the assembly line who put them together. You’re a dime a dozen. You’re not unique. Anybody can do ­a ­cartridge.". They left and formed A…

I agree 100% with much of the sentiment here that creators deserve respect and a cut of the spoils At the same time, it really depends.... I'm pretty confident that there are very few engineers at FAANG that can't be replaced. I'd also expect there are very few engineers at Epic, Activision, Blizzard, Naughty Dog, Sony, Rockstar, Ubisoft, Valve, etc... that can't be replaced. Sure, if 30%-70% of the team left on any…

> I'm pretty confident that there are very few engineers at FAANG that can't be replaced. I'd also expect there are very few engineers at Epic, Activision, Blizzard, Naughty Dog, Sony, Rockstar, Ubisoft, Valve, etc... that can't be replaced. Sure, if 30%-70% of the team left on any particular project it would probably die

The thing is these two things are linked - one engineer leaving and 30-70% of a team leaving. The quantity of who leaves does not matter as much - a project may be able to handle 70% of consultants, interns, junior and regular programmers leaving, but might die if the 30% (or 25%, or 20%) leaving is entirely senior/staff/principal.

One of the lead programmers who has been at the company for many years leaves. He is friendly with some of the other senior programmers and says he thinks the company is slowly going downhill, and he got a new job with better money, and with a saner schedule, work environment and work-life balance. Maybe one of the other senior people leaves for the company he left for. Then other senior people start leaving.

It's like Steve Blank's essay about how a company deciding to start charging fifty cents for soda led to an exodus of its best senior programmers. One lead leaving can be a catalyst for others leaving. So they are in a sense irreplaceable.

If a company is an oligopoly like Verizon/AT&T or the like, then they are privy to revenue and profits they don't have to compete for, and for companies in that situation people are more replaceable. Not for companies that have to be competitive though.

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#424

Post by egberts1 »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #404
egberts1 wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I’ve posted my story below, I also wanted to point out that I was uniquely Deaf, but nonetheless a rockstar programmer then. Interviewing is hard. Notably Google’s digital interviewing where they insist that they call you for an interview. I aced all their backend questions so they kept trying to call me until I insisted that I call them. Then it went silent. Their loss. This approach doesn’t leave us Deafies a wh…

Can you play audio explaining the situation asking for a call back number or email? I imagine this situation comes up frequently and not only with hiring.

My lawyer advised me not to reveal my handicap during any interview process. it really is about the skillset.

It becomes a bonus for the company if HR finds out, but not necessarily for the line management.

Problem is Google does not segregate such sensitive info (race, sex, handicap) between the hiring team and its HR.

Google, however, elected not to use email and I am unwilling to reveal the real reason for me calling them directly … much less by email.

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#425

Post by dawnbreez »

golergka wrote: post #397
joyfylbanana wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That studio owner literally made a billion dollar mistake by not simply being fair early on to the team. Never, ever, treat a team that has achieved rare success as replaceable cogs. If they've shipped, they can find more money people any time they want. That wisdom applies to that specific industry. In gaming, the people you hire are the asset. However the same doesn't apply to all industries. Sometimes people are…

If that's true (your statement, not mine), this just means that compensation fast fast-food employees get is completely fair.

"The workers are easily replaced" and "Their compensation is fair" are two different statements.

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#426

Post by dawnbreez »

jollybean wrote: post #355
jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaming abounds with stories like this. A friend of mine went to work for a small game studio in Oklahoma that'd gotten some acclaim for their quake mod pack. They took that momentum and started on their own novel IP as a quake licensee. They made a ahem mildly successful game named Medal of Honor. Some time down the road, the owner of the studio didn't want to share the wealth. As a result the top programmers, design…

Yeah this story has a problem. An entire company 'quits' and just 're-does the thing' is almost assuredly theft of know-now and IP, but more than that theft of the operating modality. It takes in incredible amount of work, risk, investment etc. to 'get something up and going' - with all of the parts working. Any time you walk into a company you'll see what looks like 'things working' on some level, usually that took…

I mean, you can call it IP theft, I can call it wage theft. The article quotes one of the devs as saying they had "unpaid milestones", which reads an awful lot like the "major publisher" he didn't want to name for legal reasons had violated the one term that mattered: the part where they pay for the game.

The lesson to take away here, for management, is that you can't get away with everything forever. Whether you view the actions of 2015 as IP theft or just desserts, the fact remains that it wouldn't have happened if the team had A) gotten paid and B) gotten the terms they asked for. I'd be demanding a better deal, too, if my publisher mysteriously forgot to pay for a milestone.

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#427

Post by dawnbreez »

boppo1 wrote: post #346
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a sense, some do - by quitting and/or going indie. There's some good studios out there; Team Cherry (hollow knight) famously doesn't do crunch. They also don't (need to) make any announcements about games until they're ready.

Isn't Team cherry like 10 people though?

I'd argue that's part of what makes it work. You can get ten people into one meeting room (or one zoom call) and still be able to talk to each other clearly.

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#428

Post by golergka »

dawnbreez wrote: post #425
golergka wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's true (your statement, not mine), this just means that compensation fast fast-food employees get is completely fair.

"The workers are easily replaced" and "Their compensation is fair" are two different statements.

It's exactly the same statement. Fair cost of something IS the opportunity cost of buying the same thing from someone else.

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#429

Post by robinsoh »

hollywood_court wrote: post #417
jeffwask wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they flew in labor and kept them in a pen without freedom or anyway to get home in order to ensure they did quality work. That sounds a lot like slavery with extra steps.

It was a British project management firm and it was the first and only time I ever experienced anything like that. It wouldn't be the most ideal situation for me, but they seem eager and happy to be there. I don't believe it should be compared to slavery since they chose to be there and they were paid well for their time. I don't imagine there was any other way to house that many individuals on Antigua. There certain…

> It was a British project management firm and it was the first and only time I ever experienced anything like that. It wouldn't be the most ideal situation for me, but they seem eager and happy to be there.

What was the name of the project management firm? I am curious how you determined that they seemed eager and happy to be there.

> I don't believe it should be compared to slavery since they chose to be there and they were paid well for their time

How much were they paid?

Re: Ask HN: What are examples of companies dying due to many people quitting?

#430

Post by systemvoltage »

rexreed wrote: post #344
davidkuennen wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"At the time of his death, he was estranged from most of his friends and family, except his second wife, the former Emmy Lanning (1913–2007). His children reportedly learned of his death by reading his obituary in the newspaper." Well, that says a lot.

Not to mention: "Shockley became widely known for his extreme views on race and his advocacy of eugenics". Sounds like a terrible person.

The question is whether we tolerate assholes for their inventions and brilliancy? What material damage his asshole-ness has caused compared to the benefits he provided to the world? It is quite overwhelmingly clear.

My take is that these are the people that herald the western civilization. The misfits, the weirdos and the, yes, assholes.

They have almost zero chance to convince everyone of their twisted views of Eugenics or what have you.

I am afraid, we've created a society where these people are shunned and IMO it is an overall net-negative. A lot of people in GNU org can be borderline fascist/communist/insert-extremist-movement.

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