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Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

sst.dk

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Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#201

Post by logicchains »

lovich wrote: post #184
logicchains wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So many anti-vaxxers say you can't have any disagreements with the party line or you get cancelled and then these prominent experts at the top of their fields do it every week on TWiV and don't get cancelled (because they aren't full of shit). On the one hand you say anti-vaxers are not cancelled but on the other hand you refer to them as full of shit. In spite of so many of their claims about the vaccine having bee…

He didn’t say they weren’t cancelled, he said that their claim that you can’t have any disagreements with the party line or you get cancelled. Anti vaxxers tend to not discuss nuanced details and instead come out with unsubstantiated claims like “vaccines cause autism” which is going to get most people to stop listening to them

>Anti vaxxers tend to not discuss nuanced details and instead come out with unsubstantiated claims like “vaccines cause autism” which is going to get most people to stop listening to them

Have you actually read any of the publications by prominent anti-vax scientists? For instance, https://www.researchgate.net/publication/359989585_Innate_im... is hardly lacking in nuanced details or full of unsubstantiated claims, nor is https://www.voiceforscienceandsolidarity.org/scientific-blog... .

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#202

Post by armada651 »

OrvalWintermute wrote: post #161
kcplate wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mortality is very low for younger people with zero vaccinations as well.

Quoted post unavailable.

> mandated vaccines

They were mandated? That's news to me. I'm pretty sure the OSHA mandates never went into effect.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#203

Post by hagbarth »

Dah00n wrote: post #179
emptysongglass wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But all of this sounds like spin on why the health ministry doesn't want to spare the expense on general vaccination of all members of the population or else why generally vaccinate the population before? Even with third boosters we're seeing rapid mutations that break through so I'd assume gen pop would be in need of a fourth booster and fifth etc. to qualify for the protection to all members of society that general…

I'm guessing you are not from Denmark as you read it in a completely different way than I do as a Dane.

As a Dane, I have to agree with you. Generally I trust the health authorities to recommend the action they deem appropriate and nothing more.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#204

Post by michaelmrose »

dekhn wrote: post #84
Gibbon1 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it infects cells with the ACE2 receptor covid is never going to be the new influenza. It's going to kill 100-200,000 people a year in the US indefinitely.

I don't think any responsible medical researcher would claim this. We honestly don't know what the longer term implications of annual COVID are, and the distribution of deaths strongly suggests that the population of people who would die from covid in the US already did, and the remaining population (with the exception of people entering the risk profile) is not as susceptible to extremely bad outcomes.

This is unconscionable. Most groups considered at risk had less than a 10% mortality risk ergo almost all of them are still alive albeit potentially damaged and actually at higher risk.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#205

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

nikolay wrote: post #149
throwaway1777 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4-5 times worse than flu is fine. If it mutates to be more deadly like sars we would obviously change strategies and need a new vaccine for that.

Not exactly - there's enough data that each infection accumulates damage. This is not the flu and you're not back to where you were before the COVID-19 episode.

Influenza was significantly more lethal before the 50s.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#206

Post by OrvalWintermute »

michaelmrose wrote: post #180
samuel wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several kinds of anti-vaxxers. It's easy to focus on the tinfoil hat kind but there are others that just kept an skeptic outlook and were equally by the ridiculized by media, when not directly accussed of being accomplices of homicide (I'm talking about Spain here, may be in other countries the situation was different). True experts' doubts just reinforce their positions instead of weakening them, IMO. For…

There actually really isn't any difference between the two groups. They differ only in how they articulate the same bad logic. Vaccines became broadly available in relatively wealthy countries in 2021 wherein the only reasonable position would have been that vaccination of all groups would decrease net mortality even among those unlikely to die and reduce damage to people's bodies that we were already seeing even wit…

> There actually really isn't any difference between the two groups. They differ only in how they articulate the same bad logic.

I think the high number of adverse events, and the weirdness around allergies, and my wife's colleague that was receiving a huge amount of pressure to get a 2nd shot, despite having a severe adverse event, has ruined it for me personally.

> Going with what your emotions proves you are intellectually incapable.

No emotions. The adverse events in any number of journals, and the VAERS reporting data, as passive surveillance which underreports signficantly, convinced me there were issues.

> I respect people with the aptitude and the niche knowledge to break new intellectual ground even if they turned out to be wrong. I do not respect the 1000 idiots following that one fellow into the brush who ignored all the other smart people going the other way and neither should you.

Please don't call anyone idiots here on HN. We read the articles, and the medical journals, and the pros and cons and came to an informed opinion, not including all the noise that was public pressure.

Having had covid, I can definitely say I am happy I did not get vaccinated. If you have a bunch of comorbidities or are old, or you want it just cause, go get it. But don't force those of us that are healthy, with no comorbidities that already did the social distancing to get some therapeutic with a shady safety record and likely negative efficacy. I don't believe we needed to rush these vaccines, or therapeutics, or whatever ineffective thing they are, out the door.

What is really tragic is when I hear about the infants with severe adverse events to these vaccines..........

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#207

Post by yawboakye »

michaelmrose wrote: post #180
samuel wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several kinds of anti-vaxxers. It's easy to focus on the tinfoil hat kind but there are others that just kept an skeptic outlook and were equally by the ridiculized by media, when not directly accussed of being accomplices of homicide (I'm talking about Spain here, may be in other countries the situation was different). True experts' doubts just reinforce their positions instead of weakening them, IMO. For…

There actually really isn't any difference between the two groups. They differ only in how they articulate the same bad logic. Vaccines became broadly available in relatively wealthy countries in 2021 wherein the only reasonable position would have been that vaccination of all groups would decrease net mortality even among those unlikely to die and reduce damage to people's bodies that we were already seeing even wit…

This reads as something written at the height of anger and frustration. Unless you’re a vaccine scientist/researcher, and unless you worked on/studied COVID vaccines, you’re parroting the position of experts: both on vaccines and on skepticism of vaccine effectiveness.

Usually, in matters with very personal consequences, I don’t submit anyone’s position to the rigor of, say, a mathematical proof—irrationality is allowed. Most people refusing the vaccine have either died or survived multiple infections. I believe the individual has unquestionable sovereignty over such matter of life and death. Likewise the vaccinated dead, either from COVID infection or vaccine complication.

Overall, it’s really quite simple to understand that different people view this life thing differently and make trade-offs accordingly. It may not favor you, but calling the other sides names or applying a pretend touchstone of intellectualism is the height of intellectual laziness. Given that your position is also the position of the majority, I wonder at all if “intellectually incapable” should be used here. The majority is provably the intellectually incapable.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#208

Post by _fizz_buzz_ »

fabian2k wrote: post #41

The page isn't very clear on this, but it looks to me like these are the terms for the 4th booster program. So this does not necessarily say anything about initial vaccinations, but about who to boost this fall/winter. In terms of mortality, the boosters have a significant effect for the elderly. For younger people without serious risk factors the immunity seems to keep longer and mortality is very low after only two…

Has this been updated since the new BA.1 and the BA.4/.5 booster have been approved in the EU? Because currently e.g. Germany has the same recommendation but it is expected to be updated in the next few days since they started rolling out the omikron boosters.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#209

Post by samuel »

michaelmrose wrote: post #180
samuel wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several kinds of anti-vaxxers. It's easy to focus on the tinfoil hat kind but there are others that just kept an skeptic outlook and were equally by the ridiculized by media, when not directly accussed of being accomplices of homicide (I'm talking about Spain here, may be in other countries the situation was different). True experts' doubts just reinforce their positions instead of weakening them, IMO. For…

There actually really isn't any difference between the two groups. They differ only in how they articulate the same bad logic. Vaccines became broadly available in relatively wealthy countries in 2021 wherein the only reasonable position would have been that vaccination of all groups would decrease net mortality even among those unlikely to die and reduce damage to people's bodies that we were already seeing even wit…

I'm playing the devil's advocate and I'm not very comfortable with it, but I think it' valuable to the discussion to do so.

You are oversimplying and again conflating both groups. You assume people made their mind first and then looked for experts' to support which it's not fair to a lot of them.

Let's focus on an specific case. A healthy 25 years old male living in on of those countries. If he's an skeptic and decides to make a data oriented decision, the truth is that his chance of dying or getting a severe infection was really slim and probably comparable to the odds of getting a myocarditis because of it.

Yet the media and the government, at least in my country, did not make any difference between his case and a 60 years old with hypertension. Everyone had to take their shot or be denied his right to go to a pub or restaurant.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#210

Post by nikolay »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #205
nikolay wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly - there's enough data that each infection accumulates damage. This is not the flu and you're not back to where you were before the COVID-19 episode.

Influenza was significantly more lethal before the 50s.

So, we have 30 years to wait until SARS-CoV-2 becomes like the flu?
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