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Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

sst.dk

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Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#81

Post by tylerhou »

dekhn wrote: post #71
scoofy wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I listen to TWiV, and the prominent virologists there are suggesting that we don't actually know. In some of the latest episodes, they discuss frankly the fact that yearly boosters may or may not actually have any meaningful impact for normal healthy folks. They get into the details of why we know annual influenza boosters are effective, and that we really don't know whether COVID boosters will have the same effect.…

This is correct: the current position of the medical establishment is that we simply don't have enough data to make an extremely strong argument for vaccines for healthy people.

To be clear, do you mean no additional benefit for booster vaccines (not the original series)?

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#82

Post by peteradio »

nope96 wrote: post #78
peteradio wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone should get this new booster. Why? Seems pretty indiscriminate.

Because it protects you and others around you from disease. Cowards will make up lies and excuses for not taking it, though. I suppose you have to decide who you trust, your doctor, or internet trolls. My guess is, if you ask your doctor, he or she will recommend you take it.

> Because it protects you

After already having had Covid? I'm fit in my 30s.

> and others around you from disease.

Has this borne out in practice?

> My guess is, if you ask your doctor, he or she will recommend you take it.

Guess again.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#83

Post by kcplate »

fabian2k wrote: post #41

The page isn't very clear on this, but it looks to me like these are the terms for the 4th booster program. So this does not necessarily say anything about initial vaccinations, but about who to boost this fall/winter. In terms of mortality, the boosters have a significant effect for the elderly. For younger people without serious risk factors the immunity seems to keep longer and mortality is very low after only two…

Mortality is very low for younger people with zero vaccinations as well.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#84

Post by dekhn »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #72
rossdavidh wrote: post #10

Bit by bit, it is becoming the new influenza. Not saying we're there yet, but that's clearly where we're headed. Now, influenza kills lots of people; in 2018 over 60,000 people were killed by influenza in the USA alone. But we don't have border closing or "show your papers" or all the rest for influenza, and we're not going to.

Because it infects cells with the ACE2 receptor covid is never going to be the new influenza. It's going to kill 100-200,000 people a year in the US indefinitely.

I don't think any responsible medical researcher would claim this. We honestly don't know what the longer term implications of annual COVID are, and the distribution of deaths strongly suggests that the population of people who would die from covid in the US already did, and the remaining population (with the exception of people entering the risk profile) is not as susceptible to extremely bad outcomes.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#85

Post by rossdavidh »

Kranar wrote: post #28
rossdavidh wrote: post #10

Bit by bit, it is becoming the new influenza. Not saying we're there yet, but that's clearly where we're headed. Now, influenza kills lots of people; in 2018 over 60,000 people were killed by influenza in the USA alone. But we don't have border closing or "show your papers" or all the rest for influenza, and we're not going to.

2018 was an exceptionally bad year for influenza. Typically influenza deaths in the U.S. are between 20-30k. COVID deaths in the U.S. over a two year period amounted to over 1 million.

This chart from CDC shows deaths from all causes:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

It still (just barely) shows part of the 2018 influenza spike, which is pretty similar to where we were at in July (note that the last few weeks on this chart are likely to come up a bit, but from what I've seen they don't rise much once they're 2-3 weeks old).

Now it's always possible that the winter will be just like 2020/21 and 2021/22 winters, in terms of deaths, but I highly doubt it. Anyone who has not either been infected or vaccinated (or both) by now, is almost certainly naturally resistant. There isn't much of an "immunologically naive" population left.

Where we are now is analogous to influenza in 1920, just after the big flupandemic of 1918/19.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#86

Post by dekhn »

peteradio wrote: post #82
nope96 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it protects you and others around you from disease. Cowards will make up lies and excuses for not taking it, though. I suppose you have to decide who you trust, your doctor, or internet trolls. My guess is, if you ask your doctor, he or she will recommend you take it.

> Because it protects you After already having had Covid? I'm fit in my 30s. > and others around you from disease. Has this borne out in practice? > My guess is, if you ask your doctor, he or she will recommend you take it. Guess again.

honestly, it's just not worth arguing- some folks are going to be permanently convinced that the case for vaccination is much stronger than it really is. Like I said in other comments: the medical researcher community moved on and no longer believes that vaccines were nearly as effective as originally believed, for any criterion. We certainly aren't ever going to reach ongoing herd immunity so the most reasonable approach now is to identify people at greatest risk and spend more resources protecting them.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#87

Post by dekhn »

tylerhou wrote: post #81
dekhn wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is correct: the current position of the medical establishment is that we simply don't have enough data to make an extremely strong argument for vaccines for healthy people.

To be clear, do you mean no additional benefit for booster vaccines (not the original series)?

I don't know enough about the boosters yet (and nobody does). We'll have a better idea in January after the winter cycle is winding down.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#88

Post by scoofy »

tylerhou wrote: post #81
dekhn wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is correct: the current position of the medical establishment is that we simply don't have enough data to make an extremely strong argument for vaccines for healthy people.

To be clear, do you mean no additional benefit for booster vaccines (not the original series)?

Watch the TWiV videos, they go into detail, and I time stamped them

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#89

Post by 6nf »

tablespoon wrote: post #80
DominikPeters wrote: post #45

It sounds like Danes over 50 can get a free vaccine, and those under are prohibited from getting one. Why can't we have a middle ground where young people can get a vaccine if they really want to (and e.g. pay for it themselves)? This mirrors the common thread in Covid policy where everything is either forbidden or compulsory.

> It sounds like Danes over 50 can get a free vaccine, and those under are prohibited from getting one. Why can't we have a middle ground where young people can get a vaccine if they really want to (and e.g. pay for it themselves)? This mirrors the common thread in Covid policy where everything is either forbidden or compulsory. Yeah. It's insane if they prohibit under-50s from getting the vaccine. There are more rea…

It’s not insane, they explain their decision very logically.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#90

Post by peteradio »

dekhn wrote: post #86
peteradio wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because it protects you After already having had Covid? I'm fit in my 30s. > and others around you from disease. Has this borne out in practice? > My guess is, if you ask your doctor, he or she will recommend you take it. Guess again.

honestly, it's just not worth arguing- some folks are going to be permanently convinced that the case for vaccination is much stronger than it really is. Like I said in other comments: the medical researcher community moved on and no longer believes that vaccines were nearly as effective as originally believed, for any criterion. We certainly aren't ever going to reach ongoing herd immunity so the most reasonable app…

Fair enough but policy is still standing and being made based on these beliefs. Do you believe we will finally see reversals?
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