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Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers

krebsonsecurity.com

111–120 of 484 posts

Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers

#111
post #9

It's crazy how I never carry cash anymore. I can't even think of the last time I used an ATM. I often just leave the house with my phone and buy stuff with apple pay. Also how is magnetic strip still a thing? I thought this was replaced with chip and tap years ago...

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Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers

#112
post #57

I've always wondered about how modern contactless methods are more resistant to skimming. Couldn't someone compromise two machines and essentially MITM the NFC communcations, intercepting the card's response from the first machine, and replaying it against another remote machine, along with the PIN recorded from a camera? Though I suppose the ATM company could combat this by encoding the machine's ID or a nonce with…

> Though I suppose the ATM company could combat this by encoding the machine's ID or a nonce with the message that the card's smart chip responds to, so it only works when replayed on that first machine - is this what happens in practice? Yes, more or less. The chip and contactless flows defined by EMV both require the card to generate a nonce for the transaction. The terminal also generates its own nonce[1]. [1]: ht…

Unfortunately "random" is a headache for a certain type of bureaucrat. They can't really do "random" or "unpredictable" and it needs somebody who actually understands what is going on to sit down and walk through how they can check whether to tick this box. For the Web PKI we had this problem extensively. No, if you set the top bit of this 128-bit integer, that's not 128 random bits. That's 127 random bits, the top one isn't random any more, see?

Anyway, the EMV test spec tells them to ensure the numbers are different not that they're random even though the cryptography requires randomness to work. So if you make terminals, the way to ensure you pass is not to use random numbers, as there's a tiny chance a random number fails the test. To pass, just ensure you emit a sequence of different numbers. For example 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. That's not random at all, but it's different and so it passes the test.

As you would expect this is an exploitable bug. Light Blue Touchpaper covered this years back.

Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers

#113
post #9

It's crazy how I never carry cash anymore. I can't even think of the last time I used an ATM. I often just leave the house with my phone and buy stuff with apple pay. Also how is magnetic strip still a thing? I thought this was replaced with chip and tap years ago...

Carrying cash is more common in NYC due to many small businesses there being cash-only. For instance, halal food carts are cash-only. As a result, there is higher ATM usage in NYC where these ATM skimmers were found.

Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers

#114
post #57

I've always wondered about how modern contactless methods are more resistant to skimming. Couldn't someone compromise two machines and essentially MITM the NFC communcations, intercepting the card's response from the first machine, and replaying it against another remote machine, along with the PIN recorded from a camera? Though I suppose the ATM company could combat this by encoding the machine's ID or a nonce with…

Surely that’ll get you a one use token but not data good for repeat use? In addition you would have to send that to the network as a retailer yourself. So it would not be anonymous.

Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers

#115
post #24
post #9

It's crazy how I never carry cash anymore. I can't even think of the last time I used an ATM. I often just leave the house with my phone and buy stuff with apple pay. Also how is magnetic strip still a thing? I thought this was replaced with chip and tap years ago...

I love using cash. Sometimes I don't when my local ATM is down (which seems to happen so often...), but when I can it feels much better to me. No digital records, no potential for this type of skimmer or other scam, don't have to give up my ATM pin, no worrying about my phone running out of charge, able to give it away freely to anyone in need without setting up a digital transfer, the old taco truck still only takes…

> No digital records, no potential for this type of skimmer or other scam

I don't understand. How are you not exposed to this type of skimmer when it only attacks those who use cash ATMs, like what you do?

Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers

#116
I don't use any card where you cannot deactivate the magnetic stripe entirely by software. This way the magnetic stripe gets useless because transactions through it are blocked. I live in Europe and nearly never need the magnetic stripe (one big exception was one ATM which would not work without it).

Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers

#117

This is why I really like the added security of the new Apple magnetic wallet I got. The wallet holds your cards and attaches to the back of the phone using magnets. While the inside of the wallet is magnetically shielded, I’ve found it’s nearly impossible when actually handling the magnetic wallet not to accidentally pass the card past the outside of the magnetic wallet. I have found that my card no longer works in…

I can see how this is annoying, but I think I use the magstripe 1 time per year on average. Although, I could see it being used more often by bartenders and other merchants who take my card.

No post body was provided.

Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers

#118

Is anyone else annoyed that: - We could have had chip & PIN, but for some reason (I'm guessing it's to do with how merchants take the hit for card fraud and VISA + MC think having to punch in a few numbers each sale will lead to fewer sales) - Those tap targets on CC readers sometimes aren't where the antenna is, and you have to rub your card all over the reader to get it to work? - Chip transactions take way longer…

> - Those tap targets on CC readers sometimes aren't where the antenna is, and you have to rub your card all over the reader to get it to work?

I have no issues with the icon for tap. Although they do seem to rub off and I wonder if they are meant to have an accessible braille pattern.

My dislike is tapping the screen, because then you block the visual feedback mechanism that lets you know whether it worked.

Re: Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers

#119
post #97

I think the magnetic strip needs to go. We hardly use them in Australia to the point where one of our major banks actually has a touch reader on their machine. Some sort of one-time verification would be great. An SMS or a push notification would go a long way to making this type of scraping harder. Or eliminate the card altogether - Cardless Cash.

For Mastercard: > The magnetic stripe will start to disappear in 2024 from Mastercard payment cards in regions, such as Europe, where chip cards are already widely used. Banks in the U.S. will no longer be required to issue chip cards with a magnetic stripe, starting in 2027. https://www.mastercard.com/news/perspectives/2021/magnetic-s... I think it has been over a decade since my last magstripe transaction (in a con…

The only time I've used magnetic stripe in the last decade was in the US.
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