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The B-52 was designed in a hotel room over one weekend

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Re: The B-52 was designed in a hotel room over one weekend

#51

Post by gigaflop »

urthor wrote: post #31

Out of the loop, exactly why does the USAF still fly this? Is it really a better alternative to putting some bomb bay doors on a modern Boeing? Without dismissing the entire field of aircraft design... the mind is definitely attracted to the concept of buzzsawing some doors onto the bottom of civilian airliner.

Civilian airliners are closer to shuttle buses than weapons platforms. With all of the design work that would be required to gracefully transform the luggage compartment into a bomb bay (not to mention the armor, extra tech), it may just be easier to have a purpose-built plane.

But, I'd totally love to see a civilian aircraft retrofitted in some kind of post-apocalyptic movie.

Re: The B-52 was designed in a hotel room over one weekend

#52

Post by ethbr0 »

> The B-52 played a significant role in the Vietnam War, particularly during Operation Linebacker II which saw 729 B-52 sorties drop more than 15,000 tons of bombs on Hanoi and other targets.

Oof. Not a great call-out, as one of the stupidest operational plans and misuse of sophisticated platforms.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Linebacker_II#Init...

In the initial phase and by design, the B-52s were sent over the same area for a third night in a row, in a manner that negated their strengths and exposed their weaknesses.

As a consequence, 7 planes were shot down by SAMs in a single night.

Re: The B-52 was designed in a hotel room over one weekend

#53

Post by Forgeties79 »

daveslash wrote: post #28
runjake wrote: post #3

The first prototype of the B-52 may have been designed in a weekend. The B-52 of today was iteratively designed over decades and the current H models are entirely different planes than earlier models (although structurally very close to the G model). Another HN commenter mentioned GPS being designed over a holiday. But we spent years and years in the military debugging GPS and making it functional. Claiming that some…

Came here to say something similar. My comment being "The word 'designed' is being used very generously here. I would suggest 'conceptualized' as a better word"

“I want all my music to fit in the palm of my hand.”

Steve Jobs created the iPod in just one day

Re: The B-52 was designed in a hotel room over one weekend

#54

Post by Forgeties79 »

larrywright wrote: post #43
thejosh wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my favourite (probably misquotes) is "I wrote FAT on an airplane!" from Bill Gates.

It seems likely that this one is true: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20131008-00/?p=30...

I don’t know. Seems like apocrypha layered on apocrypha go me

>…I wrote FAT on an airplane, for heaven’s sake.”

>(I can’t believe I had to write this: This is a dramatization, not a courtroom transcript.)

>This “I wrote FAT on an airplane” line was apparently one Bill used when he wanted to complain that what other people was doing wasn’t Real Programming. But this time, the development manager decided she’d had enough.

>“Fine, Bill. We’ll set you up with a machine fully enlisted in the Windows source code, and you can help us out with some of your programming magic, why don’t you.”

>This shut him up.

Re: The B-52 was designed in a hotel room over one weekend

#55

Post by justsomehnguy »

p_l wrote: post #39
justsomehnguy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if the new plane is not Tu-144 or Buran. Then it's not a new plane, but a stolen one. /s

Buran was made to look like Shuttle (despite opposition of engineers on the project), but was completely local design.

> despite opposition of engineers on the project

Huh? Despite 'opposition'? Can you elaborate?

(also make sure not to miss /s in my previous comment)

Re: The B-52 was designed in a hotel room over one weekend

#56

Post by adolph »

urthor wrote: post #31

Out of the loop, exactly why does the USAF still fly this? Is it really a better alternative to putting some bomb bay doors on a modern Boeing? Without dismissing the entire field of aircraft design... the mind is definitely attracted to the concept of buzzsawing some doors onto the bottom of civilian airliner.

I think a lot of it has to do with the challenges of validating changes to aircraft as safe. Additionally, the B-52 is relatively simple and inexpensive to operate.

As a lay person I imagine that the high wing of a B-52 vs the low wing of a modern Boeing might have something to do with center of gravity given the relative density and dynamic weight changes of bombs during a sortie vs stable passengers and luggage on a flight.

Since aircraft operate at much higher speeds than what we normal humans are accustomed to on a daily basis, there are significant concerns having to do with things like vibration [0] that may not be obvious.

That isn't to say that people aren't trying to reuse more commodity hardware over bespoke. For example, I understand that the P-8 Poseidon [1] is considered a successful program. It uses the 737 frame and does launch munitions, albeit not as many as a dedicated bomber aircraft.

Your idea of taking a sawsall to make a bomb bay door is not far off from the C-130 Harvest Hawk, which mounts bomb racks to existing cargo ramps.

0. The engineering required to fly fast (GVT): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZGo-R2mtb8

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_P-8_Poseidon

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_KC-130#Harvest...

Re: The B-52 was designed in a hotel room over one weekend

#57

Post by PragmaticPulp »

daveslash wrote: post #28
runjake wrote: post #3

The first prototype of the B-52 may have been designed in a weekend. The B-52 of today was iteratively designed over decades and the current H models are entirely different planes than earlier models (although structurally very close to the G model). Another HN commenter mentioned GPS being designed over a holiday. But we spent years and years in the military debugging GPS and making it functional. Claiming that some…

Came here to say something similar. My comment being "The word 'designed' is being used very generously here. I would suggest 'conceptualized' as a better word"

Conceptualized is a perfect word.

The claim that it was designed in a weekend is like those “overnight success” stories that ignore the decade of work that someone put in to get to that point.

Re: The B-52 was designed in a hotel room over one weekend

#58

Post by usrusr »

hef19898 wrote: post #22
closewith wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The B-52 of today was iteratively designed over decades and the current H models are entirely different planes than earlier models (although structurally very close to the G model). The plane was only ever produced for a decade and the H model was last produced in 1963. Obviously it has been retrofitted with new engines, avionics, armaments, etc, but it's not a fundamentally different plane.

If every thing except the overall form of the fuselage is changed it is a new plane.

..for certain definitions of "new" (last built 60 years ago)

Re: The B-52 was designed in a hotel room over one weekend

#59

Post by ranger207 »

urthor wrote: post #31

Out of the loop, exactly why does the USAF still fly this? Is it really a better alternative to putting some bomb bay doors on a modern Boeing? Without dismissing the entire field of aircraft design... the mind is definitely attracted to the concept of buzzsawing some doors onto the bottom of civilian airliner.

There's been a few proposals over the years to do just that, but they haven't worked out mostly because the Air Force wasn't looking for a new bomber at the time and/or already had enough bombers to do the mission. It's unlikely that the Air Force would have ever taken a civilian plane as a bomber though. While there are some civilian derived planes in use, like the KC-46, P-8, smaller cargo, VIP transport, EWAR aircraft, and in other countries AWACS planes, all of those are designed to be used in relatively safe areas. A bomber on the other hand should be able to fly in contested airspace, possibly at low altitude at high speed, with intensive maneuvering, and a whole bevy of sensors and jammers to stay alive. Plus, modern bombers need to be stealth as well, which isn't something that can be retrofitted to an existing design

Re: The B-52 was designed in a hotel room over one weekend

#60

Post by tgv »

daveslash wrote: post #28
runjake wrote: post #3

The first prototype of the B-52 may have been designed in a weekend. The B-52 of today was iteratively designed over decades and the current H models are entirely different planes than earlier models (although structurally very close to the G model). Another HN commenter mentioned GPS being designed over a holiday. But we spent years and years in the military debugging GPS and making it functional. Claiming that some…

Came here to say something similar. My comment being "The word 'designed' is being used very generously here. I would suggest 'conceptualized' as a better word"

Conceptualized, but also pondered upon, and considered worthy of further effort. A conceptualization can be done as fast as a single second, but it can take ages to weigh it against alternatives.
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