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Countersteering

en.wikipedia.org

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Re: Countersteering

#71

Post by sbaiddn »

koonsolo wrote: post #66
CraigJPerry wrote: post #7

There’s a lot about riding a motorbike that feels counterintuitive. The way this article is written it sounds like you can only initiate the steer with a counter steer but even if you’re already in a bend you can provide a counter input to tighten your line and steer harder. It’s taught pretty early on for new riders and it saves lives. There’s loads of other weird things, because the rear tire is wider than the fron…

Motorcycle physics are very interesting to say the least. My favorite is this: What happens to the suspensions when you brake? Front one compresses while the back one extends. That one was easy. Now this: What happens to the suspensions when you accelerate? Front one extends while the back one... also extends. Motorcycles are specially designed to have this last behavior.

Let me blow your mind:

"What happens to the suspensions when you brake"

Depends on the suspension!!

Earles front suspensions rise on braking, transferring weight to the rear. Its counter intuitive until you realize that the forward momentum of the bike is on an arm that has to rise to allow forward motion of the body relative to the front tire.

I think BMWs paralever could also rise on braking, but could be adjusted not to and all were.

Re: Countersteering

#73

Post by Chris2048 »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #41
ho_schi wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also Sheldon Brown: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html The writings of Sheldon Brown are somewhat a Wiki for cyclists teaching maintenance and riding a bicycle. I've learned riding a bicycle as child but the theory and maintenance guides are useful to know. If you are German you may also appreciate Wikipedalia: https://wikipedalia.com

FYI Sheldon Brown passed many, many years ago and the site has gone downhill since. The current "editor" has been replacing and adding content but has little to none of the practical knowledge Brown had from working in a bike shop for decades. A lot of content is now merely the new editor's opinions, quite a bit of it is bullshit, and sadly people treat it as authoritative because Brown's name is so strongly associat…

Who is the new editor? John Allen?

Re: Countersteering

#74

Post by agurk »

pryelluw wrote: post #65
agurk wrote: post #62

I got a new (to me) motorcycle this year for a long trip I was planning and one of the things that surprised me was how much countersteer it needed to navigate tight mountain turns. I could definitely feel it in my arms at the end of each day. A few thousand kilometers into the trip I changed the front tyre as it had hit the wear bars and was amazed how completely it changed the handling of the bike. Instantly I stop…

Nice, what bike?

A Yamaha XSR900 - probably not what people would think of as a natural bike to go on a 5500 km journey from Northern Europe to the Balkans, but you really can tour on anything. It was great in the alpine roads - especially the few days I did unloaded. It wasn't ideal on the few unpaved roads I found - especially with road tyres - but I coped with it. A few more litres in the tank (only 14L, ~300km) would have been helpful.

Luggage was a bit harder due to limited options but I got a 48L tailpack and a 12L tank bag. With a few straps and bungees I had enough space to fit everything needed for riding and camping.

Re: Countersteering

#75

Post by Enginerrrd »

Uptrenda wrote: post #10

I'm now imagining some poor child's dumbfounded look as a HackerNews parent explains how to ride a bike by breaking down countersteering. lmaoo

It's worse than that even... Historically, (before balance bikes) a lot of kids would progress from having training wheels all the way down, to two-wheeled dynamics. The problem is, having training wheels all-the-way-down means you have a tricycle, which doesn't have countersteering dynamics. So as soon as you pull the wheels up, they have to totally forget what they've learned.

Re: Countersteering

#76

Post by saraton1n »

d1l wrote: post #63
CraigJPerry wrote: post #7

There’s a lot about riding a motorbike that feels counterintuitive. The way this article is written it sounds like you can only initiate the steer with a counter steer but even if you’re already in a bend you can provide a counter input to tighten your line and steer harder. It’s taught pretty early on for new riders and it saves lives. There’s loads of other weird things, because the rear tire is wider than the fron…

Twist of the wrist is fantastic, as is the video, which can be found on YouTube. Agree with everything you said, and I'm curious: what do you ride? I've been tracking a mostly-stock R6 for the last 5 years, A the last 3 or 4. One thing I thought I'd add is that with motorcycles, the rider is a significant fraction of the total mass, so your position on the bike can greatly affect the center of gravity. You see guys l…

yea, it's so much easier to lock the rear tire when braking hard. i've owned two different Suzuki GS500s (a 1996 GS500e and a 2006 GS500f) and both of them were notoriously easy to lock up the rear wheel on

Re: Countersteering

#78

Post by heavenlyblue »

freetime2 wrote: post #50
ho_schi wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also Sheldon Brown: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html The writings of Sheldon Brown are somewhat a Wiki for cyclists teaching maintenance and riding a bicycle. I've learned riding a bicycle as child but the theory and maintenance guides are useful to know. If you are German you may also appreciate Wikipedalia: https://wikipedalia.com

> Skilled cyclists use the front brake alone probably 95% of the time I am skeptical about this claim. Here’s a recent video by a former pro on the subject of braking, for example, and he is squeezing on both brakes at the same time in most of the shots. [1] He does say that the front brake can be squeezed a lot harder, though, and is source of most of your braking power. Even in the places where Brown says you shoul…

> I am skeptical about this claim. Here’s a recent video by a former pro on the subject of braking, for example, and he is squeezing on both brakes at the same time in most of the shots. [1] He does say that the front brake can be squeezed a lot harder, though, and is source of most of your braking power.

Note that he's stopping with both brakes and also moves his hips behind the seat, which makes tumble-forwards situation less likely. If you have enough strength you can go so low in that position that you will also slide on the front wheel as well on the back wheel.

Re: Countersteering

#79

Post by Lio »

Uptrenda wrote: post #10

I'm now imagining some poor child's dumbfounded look as a HackerNews parent explains how to ride a bike by breaking down countersteering. lmaoo

Haha, you something like counter steering just being a monoid in the category of endofunctors? :P

Hopefully after kids "just learn" how to ride, watching a video of someone counter steering in slow motion and then trying to visualise themselves doing it enough to get it.

It is worth thinking about and then deliberately practicing though as nailing it can really help you reduce turning circle needed on both a motorbike and bicycle in general.

Re: Countersteering

#80

Post by synu »

Enginerrrd wrote: post #75
Uptrenda wrote: post #10

I'm now imagining some poor child's dumbfounded look as a HackerNews parent explains how to ride a bike by breaking down countersteering. lmaoo

It's worse than that even... Historically, (before balance bikes) a lot of kids would progress from having training wheels all the way down, to two-wheeled dynamics. The problem is, having training wheels all-the-way-down means you have a tricycle, which doesn't have countersteering dynamics. So as soon as you pull the wheels up, they have to totally forget what they've learned.

Here in the Netherlands kids learn to ride a bike on little two wheeled wooden bikes, that they start to “glide” on. It’s a nice system that gets them right into learning how a real bike behaves.
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