Live data from Hacker News

Senior engineers are living in the future

zerobanana.com

141–150 of 241 posts

Re: Senior engineers are living in the future

#141
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess so. I haven't had a truly good one out of the 19 or so that I've had in 10 years.

If your manager is churning every six months, they are either bad managers or in a failing organization.

Yet somehow they go on to manage other teams and thr company manages trillions in assets.

Re: Senior engineers are living in the future

#142

Where I am often hung up in comparison is due to age. I dropped out of college and spent my early 20s learning agriculture and construction. Now I work in software engineering and my current manager is younger than me. Not only is he younger than me, but he's been able to climb up to an engineering manager in a shorter amount of time than I've been working as a SWE. So I feel really lame - wasted so much time early i…

I feel you on that, but in these moments I remember a quote from Steve Jobs: "You can't connect the points forward, you can only connect them backwards".

Which for me means that you don't yet know what advantage these 'wasted' years could give you in the future. Just trust yourself to make the best decisions you can given the circumstances and you'll get to where you want in as little time as you can.

Re: Senior engineers are living in the future

#143
post #99
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "code quality" is not real, it's just something software engineers like to argue about like sports. While I do agree that many developers sometimes like to argue about "code quality" too much (and I've probably been guilty of that at times), "code quality" is definitely a real thing. I have have interacted with code bases that were a joy to read/modify, and I've interacted with code bases that made you pull your ha…

Probably I am being a bit hyperbolic. I could be more precise and say: code quality is a solution you should reach for if and only if you are running into real maintainability problems. But I strongly disagree with the sentiment that someone should not write code in a certain language, or should not contribute to a project until they know how to write idiomatically according to all the "accepted" best practices. It's…

I think somewhere in the middle is a good place to start. This can be managed by limiting the scope of code a "language newbie" writes (until they get reasonably up-to-speed) -- if/when that is possible. It also helps if you have someone experienced in the language who can help point them in the right direction when they need help. That can be a challenging thing to do well. Deciding where to provide direction, and where to just let them figure stuff out on their own can be difficult. You can come off as being too picky, or just being a jerk when you were just sincerely trying to help. I think to do it well you have to be vigilant about keeping your own ego in check. It has been my experience that most people who are fairly good at something (present company included) can slip into the state of "thinking more highly of themselves than they should". That's always counter-productive, and in my experience good "mentors" (or whatever you want to call them) are the one's who excel at avoiding it.

Re: Senior engineers are living in the future

#144
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really all it is is "3 days to showcase you have a working compiler, ide, formatter, can run the tests, and are familiar with the CR tools". The rest of it is learned (hopefully quickly) through the CRs, and any senior engineer should be comfortable making a few idiomatic mistakes in their CRs that they learn from.

None of that is "3days" . That's all the negative days before you start using the language. I could do all those setup things in N days without ever learning any programming language.

I think you’ve misread / misunderstood the original post.

“3 days into the job”

Re: Senior engineers are living in the future

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that's not at all what the article is suggesting. Quite the opposite.

> it is literally effortless to accidentally cultivate the impression of being some kind of wizard

A quote which shows you were wrong and the person you were responding to was right. You do know what is meant by "impression" in that sentence?

Re: Senior engineers are living in the future

#146

Oh God. No. "Ensure that you are fulfilling the expectations of your manager" Please please do not assume your manager is any good at their job. Talk to your users. Find a way to identify them and get feedback from them. Keep your manager in the loop sure. But don't wait for requirements to come down from on high. "Every step up in job title is equivalent to living perhaps 1–2 days further into the future." No. If an…

Uh... Fulfilling expectations has nothing to do with making decisions on your own.

I can guarantee you that no matter how good or bad their manager, if you don't meet their expectations, you are in trouble. By all means, own your local decisions, be proactive, keep your manager in the loop - AND MAKE SURE THEIR EXPECTATIONS AND YOUR WORK MATCH. That doesn't mean waiting for requirements, but that means your manager knows what you do and agrees, at least in broad strokes.

Surprising your manager unpleasantly never leads to good outcomes for you. There's only one person holding power in that relationship. (Positive surprises do work, but they usually take the form of "I did what you expected, AND".)

Totally agreed that the 1-2 days in the future thing is wrong. As a senior you should be at least a couple of weeks in the future, better if it's months. At the staff level, 6-12 months. At the principal level, 2-5 years.

If it's just a few days between each level, a) somebody is failing at their job, and b) yes, information will be outdated by the time it reaches you.

Re: Senior engineers are living in the future

#147
The operative word is value: Many conventions and activities have value, some don't. I once met a senior developer who created in c++ the Class Byte for our codebase to tackle portability with it. I was a noob and I really thought that learning that had value. Years later I realized that there was really no value to the solution and it was more of a gold-plating activity. Yet, there was value on learning to recognize superfluous code. As a code developer their is that is that ironic and somewhat painful enlightenment along pacing along many dead end trails. What about those activities that truly not only do not have value but chip away the value of other valuable efforts. That is the time to dust off your resume.

Re: Senior engineers are living in the future

#148
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sure he felt stupid when I pointed it out. He certainly did. There is no amount of experience that makes people not feel stupid about those. What changes is that you learn to not be affected by it, because you know that it's not a personal flaw (at least not one specific to you), and while you can improve on it, you can't completely fix it. But the alternating between feeling like the dumbest person on Earth an…

You develop tunnel vision and, whether someone points it out to you or you look at it with fresh eyes in the morning, it's a head slap "Duh."

Yep. I've learned over time to just walk away from problems like this that make me go "that's not possible!" or "there must be a compiler bug!"

After at least a few hours away (ideally not coding) your fresh eyes will often spot it.

Similarly, demoing the bug to someone else is a good way, and often through the mere act of demoing it you'll find it yourself (also known as "rubber ducking" [1]).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging

Re: Senior engineers are living in the future

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saw a company fail because all developers were expected to master k8/helm etc. A couple of us got the hang of it well enough to get by. But almost everyone failed too. Even those of that had it working, it was a huge time sink.

In what way were the developers expected to "master" k8/helm? In the sense of actually making contributions to the k8/helm setup, or simply using an existing k8/helm setup to provide a development environment? Was there any "expert" person on the team that everyone could ask about k8, or was everyone simply supposed to pick things up on their own? (asking because my own team is currently moving in this direction, and…

Ima be facetious here and suggest that the above is meant in the sense that K8 is the ultimate leaky abstraction and you have to "master" it first before even starting starting to achieve anything with it.

And Helm is just closing the cycle of Samsara - if you really want to base your operations on string templating, just use bash lol. Or hand-written forms on paper, still faster and you still get a better idea of what's going on.

There's also the problem of many developers nowadays just not having the hacker mindset/actual high-level abstract thinking/attention span, so instead of seeing the whole of K8S as the pointless kludge it is, they only see the interface - yay, YAML, I know that language! (usually they know it from everyone's favourite "dead" tool, docker-compose; which is a gem) - and they go on to fight with it tooth and nail, with corresponding feelings of "achievement" and "mastery".

I think the "10 years PHP/Java -> 3 days Go" thing from granduncle's cousin post is meant to point out this particular paradoxical situations.

But it could hurt people's feels to say it like that so let's just let Google do all our thinking for us instead. We truly live in a gilded age of computing.

Re: Senior engineers are living in the future

#150

Oh God. No. "Ensure that you are fulfilling the expectations of your manager" Please please do not assume your manager is any good at their job. Talk to your users. Find a way to identify them and get feedback from them. Keep your manager in the loop sure. But don't wait for requirements to come down from on high. "Every step up in job title is equivalent to living perhaps 1–2 days further into the future." No. If an…

> The US military tries hard to put decision making at the front line where it is most up to date.

Business leaders love to imitate the military, but isnt it ironic they are emulating the institution that has the most government involvement and central planning?

Post reply on HN