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Scala isn't fun anymore

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Re: Scala isn't fun anymore

#101

Post by valenterry »

bdangubic wrote: post #20
threeseed wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has the ability to make real-world concurrency scenarios trivial e.g. * 3 fibers - each fetches from remote storage, local storage and in-memory cache. * Race them, kill the two slowest and give me the result. * Free the resources safely including if any of the connections fails for an unforeseen reason. That's a few lines in ZIO. Pain to get working properly in Java, Rust, Go, C++ at least.

This is exactly the kind of problem that 0.000324% of us are having while being productive in Java/Rust/Go/C++ ... ;)

It definitely is. You can even see it by looking at how the languages market themselves, claiming to make concurrency easy etc.

Re: Scala isn't fun anymore

#102

Post by imachine1980_ »

branko_d wrote: post #49
ctrlmeta wrote: post #11

> I’m also having affectionate memories of JavaScript and Python I am afraid, things are equally messy in JavaScript and Python too. "X language isn't fun anymore" is exactly how I feel about X = JavaScript, X = Python, X = C++, X = Java and many other languages. There was a time when I found Python and Js to be very fun languages. But recently the ecosystem has been becoming a mess. Build breakages on dependency upg…

”There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses.” - Bjarne Stroustrup

i feel golang and c partially, take(go sound weird in this context) a different router and we need to appreciate this type of low change languages or the python 3/2 way of change for scratch both are ways to make better software, knowing that allow ecosystems need to be re written i wish in 5 year the idea of python 4 image even when they say don't, to make a new and better langues, lua is the clear example than people want simplicity we need to accept this change or we are hanged by the limitation of our past

Re: Scala isn't fun anymore

#103

Post by geodel »

valenterry wrote: post #84
geodel wrote: post #74

Regarding Akka situation. I am feeling Java Loom + Structured concurrency[1,2] is coming at write time. I think lot of existing project will try to shove in virtual threads in reactive solution in sub-optimal way and It may not lead to great results. Already an implementation of Loom based server is out[3]. Going by how simple code looks and how performant code is compare to reactive solution even in ALPHA release. I…

Loom will be the next billion dollar mistake after nulls. Keep my words in mind for a decade or two...

Okay, are you going to give reason or is it more of a Thought leader style pronouncement?

Re: Scala isn't fun anymore

#105

Post by protomolecule »

valenterry wrote: post #84
geodel wrote: post #74

Regarding Akka situation. I am feeling Java Loom + Structured concurrency[1,2] is coming at write time. I think lot of existing project will try to shove in virtual threads in reactive solution in sub-optimal way and It may not lead to great results. Already an implementation of Loom based server is out[3]. Going by how simple code looks and how performant code is compare to reactive solution even in ALPHA release. I…

Loom will be the next billion dollar mistake after nulls. Keep my words in mind for a decade or two...

Why?

Re: Scala isn't fun anymore

#106

Post by cube2222 »

valenterry wrote: post #100
cube2222 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually trivial in Go as well, with a context (cancellation) and a WaitGroup or channel (waiting for the first one to finish).

Go fails at the error-handling and resource-safety part. The compiler does not cover you properly.

The fact that the compiler doesn't cover that automatically doesn't mean Go fails at it, as it has very good primitives for handling them.

Error handling and deferring for resource closure work just fine.

Sure you could say "but the compiler doesn't guarantee it". But that's not much of a point if it's not a real problem in practice.

Re: Scala isn't fun anymore

#107

Post by JackFr »

threeseed wrote: post #7

I actually think Scala is in the best position it's ever been. There is a commitment to making the language simpler, easier and cleaner. On the backend, ZIO ( https://zio.dev ) is the best concurrency library on any platform. On the frontend you have really interesting Scala.js projects like Laminar ( https://laminar.dev ). The biggest issue really is the tooling. SBT is simply awful.

> The biggest issue really is the tooling. SBT is simply awful.

It's like they sat down and said "Maven has a bunch of problems. Let's fix none of them and introduce a few new ones."

Re: Scala isn't fun anymore

#108

Post by AaronM »

sixminuteabs wrote: post #65
threeseed wrote: post #7

I actually think Scala is in the best position it's ever been. There is a commitment to making the language simpler, easier and cleaner. On the backend, ZIO ( https://zio.dev ) is the best concurrency library on any platform. On the frontend you have really interesting Scala.js projects like Laminar ( https://laminar.dev ). The biggest issue really is the tooling. SBT is simply awful.

I agree with a lot of the criticism in the article, but also agree with this idea that Scala is in the best position it has ever been. Core Scala is migrating to Scala3 (will take a few years) and the scala team had the courage to take on the rough edges. The Typelevel community (FP side) has a whole ecosystem which is maturing into something really nice. Akka pulled the ripcord on licensing so everyone knows where t…

For me the big win with Go, is its so easy to get from new project -> first working test.

I think there installation of the required tooling is very easy and just works, unlike other languages where you can spend a lot of time just getting all of that initial stuff setup. Also upgrading the tool chain is very easy as well.

Re: Scala isn't fun anymore

#109

Post by lo_zamoyski »

GlennS wrote: post #21
petesergeant wrote: post #6

> the ecosystem is essentially a microcosm of the US political landscape what does this mean?

Difficult. I will attempt to answer this in a way that won't upset people and may be informative? Here are two ways of looking at it: a. People in the USA* have massive fights about things that no-else cares about, and software projects put up a statement about those. This is off-putting to everyone else. b. The USA is ahead of the curve on some political movements, and the article is expressing conservatism/anti-con…

I think the short answer is that the US is the dominant soft global empire (which is to say this is not merely military, but also economic and cultural). What happens in Rome ripples outward into the broader realm.

But I also believe that another contributing factor is that Americans, regardless of political affiliation, often demonstrate a presumption that their own provincial squabbles, concerns, and anxieties are shared by everyone else on the planet. This is not categorically unique to Americans, but such presumption is reinforced by boorish imperial egocentrism.

And, of course, some people simply don't have the sense, consideration, and social grace to know what the appropriate time, place, and means are for expressing political convictions, and as a result, obsessively pollute all manner of social interaction with the aforementioned topics.

Re: Scala isn't fun anymore

#110

Post by badpun »

zokier wrote: post #77
badpun wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java has the same dependency issues? I vividly remember spending days on jars shading in Maven. Basically, a single approach that would solve this, irrespective of the language, would be isolating dependency trees of every library from each other, essentially duplicating the code of many common libraries in RAM (like Docker, but for libraries inside the same process). There's an option to do that in Maven, but it's n…

> Basically, a single approach that would solve this, irrespective of the language, would be isolating dependency trees of every library from each other Doesn't solve the problem completely because it is normal that applications need libraries to interoperate; consider case where application is passing objects between two libraries that both use types from a third library.

Then your app would explicitly be doing the impendance mismatch resolution (converting objects from one version of library to the other) when doing the library calls.
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