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Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

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Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#581

Post by austinjp »

Bancakes wrote: post #502
austinjp wrote: post #327

The UK media (not just the BBC) continue to profess "amazement" at the speed and efficiency of the transitioning from a dead monarch to a living one. There's been much speaking in awed tones at the pace of the various proclamations, committee meetings, document signings, etc, as if this pace tells us why we should be impressed. Personally I've found it borderline sickening. If there was a curtain that could have slip…

Why are you so irrationally afraid of politics, specifically the Royal family? Did they form a child army, did they smuggle heroin, did they kick puppies?

Well which is it? Politics, or the Royal Family? If they're separate please ask a more specific question. If they're not separate, shouldn't they be?

As for your specific points, are you being facetious? They seem deliberately outrageous, but... oh dear...

The UK military routinely recruits minors: https://www.refworld.org/docid/498805c2c.html

The Opium Wars: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Opium_War

Prince beat dogs (sorry, couldn't find anything about kicking them): https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/british-press-sco...

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#582

Post by morelisp »

javajosh wrote: post #572
morelisp wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Monarchy is a human default government. There is literally no evidence for this.

Quoted post unavailable.

Bluntly, actual anthropology does not agree with this at all. It's some Enlightenment technocratic fantasy, so it's fitting you invoke Civ and not, like, a real survey.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#583

Post by seydor »

eternalban wrote: post #575
seydor wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is weird. Even bloomberg seems to have a newfound religious worship of the british monarchy I understand that it is popular among the general public because fairytales and costumes and stuff , but i have to shake my head at how some reporters talk seriously about "peaceful transition of power", when there is no power

If this institution lacked power, would it be featured 24/7 internationally, whether we like or not? So maybe there is in fact some unspoken power involved here, even though we're told "it is ceremonial". Sometimes makes you wonder, did the British Empire really die or is it like the un-Dead Soviet Union waiting in the wings to make a comeback?

yes it is dead. this elaborate show is useful to some businesses but irrelevant to the rest of the world. Whatever 'power' comes with celebrity, it's impossible no to have a 'peaceful transition of power' when one of the parties has kicked the bucket.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#584

Post by eternalban »

seydor wrote: post #583
eternalban wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this institution lacked power, would it be featured 24/7 internationally, whether we like or not? So maybe there is in fact some unspoken power involved here, even though we're told "it is ceremonial". Sometimes makes you wonder, did the British Empire really die or is it like the un-Dead Soviet Union waiting in the wings to make a comeback?

yes it is dead. this elaborate show is useful to some businesses but irrelevant to the rest of the world. Whatever 'power' comes with celebrity, it's impossible no to have a 'peaceful transition of power' when one of the parties has kicked the bucket.

> it's impossible no to have a 'peaceful transition of power' when one of the parties has kicked the bucket.

I don't think [this is] how power works, specially in a monarchy. Peaceful transition means the power base that has given fealty to Mr. X is now accepting Mr. Y. That is the 'transition'.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#585

Post by HyperSane »

bluehatbrit wrote: post #580
HyperSane wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who can tolerate being ruled by self-professed "Royalty" has no self-respect.

It's possible to disagree with something and yet tolerate it, especially when you've got bigger problems like affording food and warmth this winter. While they may not have your respect, I suspect those who tolerate the monarch have plenty of self-respect.

"especially when you've got bigger problems like affording food and warmth this winter."

All the wealth the royal family hordes could help with that. Those "Royal" palaces could be converted to museums or hotels and earn money instead of costing money.

To be a monarchist is to accept the claim of inherent superiority by self-professed "Royalty".

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#586

Post by HyperSane »

kamaal wrote: post #579
HyperSane wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who can tolerate being ruled by self-professed "Royalty" has no self-respect.

"Royalty" never really ruled anything completely in history. There were always ministers, even a prime minister, bureaucracy under the King/Queen. The King/Queen only maintained enough political power to veto any decision in any branch of the government. That's pretty much it. Nothing much really changed per se after Democracy. Bureaucracy still remains the largest and still a unelected branch of the government. You…

"Nothing much really changed per se after Democracy. "

Yes, something very important changes, which is a rejection of the fundamental premise that some people are inherently superior and deserve to rule because of it. I wonder if the fact that the UK is still so strongly class segregated is a cause or effect of still having a monarchy?

"what are you fighting for"

Not tolerating a bunch of elitist, parasitic pricks who think they have the right to rule because they are better than everyone else.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#587

Post by fennecfoxy »

austinjp wrote: post #327

The UK media (not just the BBC) continue to profess "amazement" at the speed and efficiency of the transitioning from a dead monarch to a living one. There's been much speaking in awed tones at the pace of the various proclamations, committee meetings, document signings, etc, as if this pace tells us why we should be impressed. Personally I've found it borderline sickening. If there was a curtain that could have slip…

I'm not of the UK, but I live here. And the people chose for it to be this way after they beheaded Charles I. If enough people wanted to dissolve the monarchy then it would happen, though I'm sure without as much bloodshed as in 1649.

Of course it's weird and strange and old fashioned, the entirety of the UK is built from the foundations on such things. Your love for brick over modern steel and glass, the countless centuries of history embedded into almost every location.

If this wasn't the case then I wouldn't have learnt so much as to why my life in New Zealand was so different to my one here.

But who knows, maybe people here really are ready to forgo all that, but from what I have seen so far I don't think so. Hell even the religious differences (NZ, it's not a huge part of our lives) are stark.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#588

Post by fennecfoxy »

jdkee wrote: post #403
opportune wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That person may be from a culture with no monarchy. As an American I find the whole process and institution disgusting (yes, before you type out a clever reply, I know we have our own problems and I also probably find those disgusting). So many resources dedicated to one family with no real functional role and not even a veneer of merit… I think part of it is that culturally the British monarchy is the most relevant…

The constant drumbeat in the news media of the royal family's dedication to "service". How is gorging on the public's teat while maintaining a $25 billion family "business" that is exempt from UK inheritance taxes in any way, shape or form consistent with liberal democracy?

Sovereign grant isn't "gorging on the public's teat" https://www.royal.uk/royal-finances-0 it's pretty much plain inheritance. In fact even more restricted because much of the royal family holdings cannot be sold and must be passed down.

Sure, it's a bloody violent history of kings and empires that got them there but the same could be said for much of the modern world. Is America going to hand back ALL land to Native Americans? Will individual tribes hand land back over to the tribes to originally inherited it before historical conquests? Etc. It's a more complex issue than first appears with history so long that it's almost impossible to track who is owed what.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#589

Post by fennecfoxy »

bogomipz wrote: post #473
midoridensha wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Can confirm major disruption and likely costs based on the sheer number of police and event staff I've seen just walking through town. To be fair, when you consider that the Queen lived for 96 years and there hasn't been an event like this since 1953, the cost spread out over that much time really isn't that much. Long live the King!! (to keep costs down)

>"To be fair, when you consider that the Queen lived for 96 years and there hasn't been an event like this since 1953" Did you miss the whole Platinum Jubilee celebration two months ago for the Queen? [1] The scope of that was also over the top and costs 10's of millions of pounds. There was also the Saphire Jubilee 5 years ago, the Diamond Jubilee in 2012, the Golden Jubilee in 2002, there's at least a few others as…

Based on revenue from the crown holdings, since the sovereign grant only represents a small percentage of overall revenues, much of the "public paid" money is paid back by that surplus being made available for public spending.

See: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sovereign-grant-a...

"In exchange for this public support, The Queen surrenders the revenue from The Crown Estate to the government. Over the last ten years, the revenue paid to the Exchequer is £3 billion for public spending."

Basically by allowing the monarchy a fund to be used to carry out their public (and private) duties, the surplus of royal holdings revenue goes into public spending. I don't know the exact numbers but the situation is a LOT more complex than "the taxpayer pays for the monarchs, reeee".

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#590

Post by HKH2 »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #332
afarrell wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is because humans have an irrational tendency towards sycophancy. This was true throughout both the Obama and Trump administrations and before them. Better to direct that impulse towards a dignified institution that does nothing but attract tourists and occasionally signal society’s values than towards something that tries to have efficient and lethal decision-making power.

Wait, is this satire? Surely we should resist our less productive qualities, like sycophancy. Not try to channel it to some "worthy cause".

Maybe you can do that, but can you empower other people to do the same?

You might kick one demon out of the house and get seven in return.

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