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Prenatal cannabis exposure associated with mental disorders in children

nih.gov

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Re: Prenatal cannabis exposure associated with mental disorders in children

#231

Post by jupp0r »

bnjms wrote: post #215
jupp0r wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pregnant women were included in the original safety studies (not by design, if you have 40k people some of them will become pregnant) and there were no safety signals. On the other hand we had pretty good information early on that being pregnant was a major risk factor in getting severe COVID.

That only tells you the safety of the mother and the obvious negative outcomes for the baby. When people ask is it safe they usually mean long term.

Same goes for the disease. It’s not a great situation when both the vaccine and the disease are new. FWIW vaccine side effects that are detected a long time after administration are incredibly rare [1].

[1] https://www.unicef.org/montenegro/en/stories/vaccines-and-si...

Re: Prenatal cannabis exposure associated with mental disorders in children

#232

Post by drtz »

Bud wrote: post #47
Godel_unicode wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fat includes transfat. This back-and-forth does an excellent job of underlining GPs point about those being complex subjects that require study and nuanced explanation.

It's not that complex, actually. The vast majority of fats, all the natural ones, basically, are fine. Healthy, even. The weirdass plastic fats created by injecting hydrogen into vegetable oil are not fine. Done! Was that really so nuanced? No. It was not.

There's plenty of nuance you're missing still:

- Baseline cholesterol levels

- Inflammation

- Genetic predisposition to heart disease / diabetes

- Types of fat and quantities consumed

- What else does your diet consist of

Edit: and these are just some risk factors for heart disease and diabetes. There's plenty more nuance still if we want to talk about quality of life, energy levels, digestive function etc...

Re: Prenatal cannabis exposure associated with mental disorders in children

#233

Post by cududa »

moomoo11 wrote: post #101

Is this really surprising? Any time I had used cannabis I felt like my IQ dropped 20-30 points and I would lose hours of my day where it was difficult for me to learn. It made doing household chores not terrible, but brought out a lot of panic inducing moments and erratic behavior. I was thinking about a 100k other things while doing one thing. Later on I realized I wasn't even doing that one thing so well. Anything…

31 year old adult that smoked weed daily from like 16 on until about 28.

Always thought I was "treating my anxiety" with weed. Nope, it absolutely was just making it worse. I quit for a few months and the anxiety got worse. Dad then died of a congenital heart condition. Symptoms of the heart condition mimic anxiety.

Took 9 years of doctors telling me "it was a fluke" my dad died of it/ that there's no way I had that condition showing symptoms in my 20's. That it was weed and smoking cigarettes. Finally had a doctor take me seriously. EKG showed nothing (Inappropriate Sinus Tachycardia symptoms aren't just gonna show up on command). Got a 30 day halter monitor. Proved I have it and would've died within a few years without meds.

Got on heart meds and 80% of my anxiety dried up. Didn't really feel the need to smoke weed anymore outside of for fun.

Not trying to say everyone that can empathize with this post has IST - but, self medicating is real, and you need to advocate for yourself in medicine to try and get true care.

Every other month I do a Twitter thread on being a young adult with heart symptoms and not being taken seriously because of young age or smoking cigarettes, etc. We have a little club of 12 now - 11 people I've helped walk through the bullshit Byzantine procedures a young adult needs to go through to get a heart condition diagnosis. Always happy to walk anyone through the process who might see this post.

Basically shoots and ladders and logic puzzles with medical professionals to get your 30 day halter monitor - but it's so worth it for a diagnosis.

Re: Prenatal cannabis exposure associated with mental disorders in children

#234

Post by e9 »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #40
avgcorrection wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fat is an essential macronutrient.

Fat includes transfat. This back-and-forth does an excellent job of underlining GPs point about those being complex subjects that require study and nuanced explanation.

To make it more complicated not all tranfats are bad. Conjugated Linoleic Acid is natural transfat that is beneficial.

Re: Prenatal cannabis exposure associated with mental disorders in children

#235

Post by Technetium »

DontchaKnowit wrote: post #183
scythe wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The primary positive effect of cannabis in the general population is probably that it tends to interfere with alcohol consumption, due to excessive sedation. This probably explains the lack of negative population-level effects of cannabis legalization. The most concerning effect of cannabis is its tendency to increase heart rate. Quite a bit of research is available on the effects of cannabis use — the problem is tha…

I don't buy that cannabis use interferes with alcohol consumption. Every weed smoker I know is a drunk and when I used to smoke I drank along with it every single time.

I'm an example of the direct opposite. I hate drinking.

Re: Prenatal cannabis exposure associated with mental disorders in children

#236

Post by tedivm »

sbaiddn wrote: post #223
tedivm wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's what you think my response says then you didn't read it at all. I literally said that I would tell people "we just don't know, and so it should be avoided". Not "we don't know". I said "We don't know, so avoid it". That's a very different statement than what you're quoting- literally the exact opposite of your "it's not safe" quote.

Inhaling any burnt organic matter is known to be bad for peoples health. Theres a mechanistic explanation for it too: smoking causes incomplete combustion of organic matter creating a soup of volatile organics and slew of carbon particulates, many with activated surfaces. CO, formaldehyde, CN, etc. even CO2 which is toxic at high concentrations (its not merely an asphyxiant like it is for a fire). Smoke is bad. Full…

Pretty much everyone I know who uses cannabis vaporizes these days, so no burning involved. That said these sketchy vape cartridges are pretty scary at times and I'd love to see that regulated and tested like tobacco products are.

Regardless of how it's ingested though I imagine that once it gets into the bloodstream it's getting into the fetus, and I'd absolutely want a bunch of high quality peer reviewed studies saying that it's safe before I'd be willing to indulge while pregnant (not that it's an option for me, testicles and all).

Re: Prenatal cannabis exposure associated with mental disorders in children

#237

Post by asveikau »

Maursault wrote: post #212
asveikau wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've personally seen someone with bipolar disorder enter a months long psychotic episode after exposure to small amounts of THC. That is how I know it's a thing. It happens. I think psychotic illnesses are complex and there is no one cause. THC can be a factor. This is also what the Google results I linked you to said

Correlation is not causation. And even to suggest small amounts of THC can cause "a months long psychotic episode" is absurd, especially because it is an ordinary risk of being bipolar. If a mentally healthy individual was sent into a month's long psychotic episode immediately after smoking a bong, then maybe, and that is still a huge maybe. Again, cannabis has been in use recreationally and medicinally for more than…

> but psychotic episode remains a vanishingly rare event among users, insignificantly so.

I don't think that's likely to be true at all. Single digit percentages of all humans have a psychotic disorder. If cannabis had no effect and such an event is coincidental, we would certainly not call it "vanishingly rare".

> But these days conservatives have gone overboard in twisting the facts to promote their nanny state agenda.

To be clear I explicitly said this is not a reason to ban on criminalize the substance. Just to not be in denial about it.

Anyway, the Google search I sent to you has plenty of sources who agree with my position.

Re: Prenatal cannabis exposure associated with mental disorders in children

#238

Post by asveikau »

superkuh wrote: post #207
asveikau wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've personally seen someone with bipolar disorder enter a months long psychotic episode after exposure to small amounts of THC. That is how I know it's a thing. It happens. I think psychotic illnesses are complex and there is no one cause. THC can be a factor. This is also what the Google results I linked you to said

Unless they regularly entered bipolar episodes after imbibing a small amount of THC I'm not sure you're making a claim here. You saw it happen one time to a person who also goes into bipolar incidents without it and now it's the THC's fault? It isn't a very convincing anecdote. I bet they drank water before the bipolar episode too.

There are any factors that cause such an episode in someone with susceptibility. I'll repeat: [it is] complex and there is no one cause. THC can be a factor. This is also what the Google results I linked you to said

Re: Prenatal cannabis exposure associated with mental disorders in children

#239

Post by NateEag »

ok_dad wrote: post #114
robocat wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I have acquaintances and friends with diagnosed mental illnesses that smoke weed. Also the same but don’t smoke. Yes, I have acquaintances and friends with no psychological problems that smoke weed. Also the same but don’t smoke. Yes, I have acquaintances and friends with “undiagnosed” psychological problems that smoke weed. Also the same but don’t smoke. No, I am not a professional psychological specialist. Yes…

Sure, I was fishing. I guess I should have just outright said "Your individual experiences with individuals in a group are invalid when discussing things that can be empirically studied, such as the effects of using cannabis on various groups," and went on with my day. By the way, labeling an undesirable group with "mental issues" has been done many times in the past, sometimes even with "good" intentions.

Individual experiences aren't invalid.

A well-designed study may be more revealing, but the individual experiences are legitimate and should not be discarded solely because studies are possible.

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