Italy does this. My Italian family hates it, as if you get a bad or bad-fit teacher you are stuck with them for years. Much better to change from time to time, try different things
Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years
121–130 of 142 posts
Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
That one student should be able to switch to a different group. If all want to switch then there's a problem with the instructor. Let's look at the opposite end of the spectrum. Student loves an instructor but is needlessly switched to someone new. My point though is that the flexibility to change or stay in the same group should exist.
In U.S. public schools, this will not be allowed. Schools already do everything they can to discourage and deny teacher switching requests. Why? Because there is a large difference in quality between teachers, and everyone knows which teachers are best, but administrators aren't allowed to fire a teacher with low enrollment because of switching requests, and face class size limits in the case of the good teachers.
According to the teachers' union, the quality of instruction is dependent on only two factors: 1) the degree 2) the years spent teaching.
It's necessary to deny any other factors, such as allowing choice by the students/parents.
Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have no doubt administrators have a large role to play in this but "test scores" and "cost per student" seem like perfectly fine metrics by which to judge schools, no?
"I literally don't have the time to cover the Indian Wars or Jim Crow south while still covering what I need to cover so my students can pass the state standardized test" -A teacher I was talking to last week Point is, test scores aren't perfect.
The idea is to get rid of all standardized testing, so that there will be no contraindications to the story of public school excellence.
Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years
#124This seems like a practice that would work for some students and hurt others. Some students may not do well with a particular teacher. Being stuck for years with that teacher is a disservice to the student.
> This seems like a practice that would work for some students and hurt others. We need to figure out how to enact school practices in a way that different people get different practices; ideally lined up with what works for those people. Obviously, if the school is small enough that it's one teacher per grade level, you can't have some kids in the grade loop and others not.
We already know that that way is - free market schools.
Free markets work through mutual consent between provider and providee.
Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years
#125This shares the benefit of "looping" with homeschooling, which is sort of an extreme form of looping I guess. Homeschooled kids benefit tremendously from having a teacher who is _incredibly_ familiar with their previous experiences and learnings, which the teacher can draw upon to teach new ideas. If a teacher has an even slightly better understanding of what their children already know, they are set up to succeed at…
Gonna need some citations on homeschool effectiveness (not written by homeschool advocates) because in my experience, I knew 1 parent that actually was knowledgable and engaged enough to provide the kind of teaching you are talking about. I have known several that homeschooled for religious reasons or "scared of public school and couldn't get into private school" reasons and the kids were clearly educationally behind…
>kids were clearly educationally behind.
Educationally behind who? In New York less than half of students met "proficiency standards" in English and Math in 2019 - before the pandemic when NYC schools were closed for over a year. A look at how incredibly low a bar it is to be considered "proficient" makes this stat much worse than it looks at first glance. A functionally illiterate homeschooled child who was unable to do basic math would be on the same level at ~60% of New York public school students.
http://www.nysed.gov/news/2019/state-education-department-re...
Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's probably true; schools are generally run for the benefit and convenience of teachers, not students. The former have a strong union with outsized influence on local elections, whereas the latter don't even vote. The same incentives lead to early school start times which help teachers at the cost of students (particularly teenagers who generally have 'later' circadian rhythms).
Oh wow. You know U.S. labor is in a terrible place when AFT is described as a powerful union with an outsized influence on elections. (It’s exactly the opposite, actually, the only power teachers have left is the power to strike.)
> the only power teachers have left is the power to strike.
That's the only power any worker has. Pay and/or other powers tend to correlate to how often the worker ceases to work and/or how expensive it would be to replace them (true for both union and non-union workers).
Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years
#127Standard in Waldorf schools. The first-grade teacher follows her/his class all the way up to 8th grade. As the students grow, so does the teacher. All the advantages -- and disadvantages -- that you might imagine.
But even in non Waldorf schools, it’s common to have the same teacher for the first 4 years, sometimes longer. At least it’s common here, in East Germany. I also think it is kind of important that it is this way, because kids learn FOR their teacher. A positive relationship must come first. Of course conflicts can happen. If this is the case and parents feel their children don’t grow to their full potential there are…
Never heard of such a thing in the US.
We did have repeat teachers for 3rd/4th grade (as the article described, it was probably due to staff shortages at the time), but by 5th/6th grade we moved to having different teachers for every subject.
Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years
#128Yeah, I had like two math teachers from like 4th grade to 12th and I mostly attribute my dislike for it to them, even though I want to relearn now if I could get the time.
I'm in the opposite end of this, end teachers being close to students in anyway. I hated hearing about their personal lives, trying to be "pals", expecting some sort of social engagement,etc... again I lament people not knowing the right place for the right thing (I've been arguing on a different thread against politics and religion at work). I just want to learn $subject and go home! I have no desire to be indoctrinated or form relationships with teachers and this shouldn't be the norm either. Teachers are like a 3rd parent these days. Why do they do that when they don' even get paid enough? I mean, I hope if I ever have kids ML algorithms and online classes will teach them instead of humans so I can do the parenting.
Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years
#129Interesting, I've also heard of benefits from multi-grade classrooms; I wonder if there's a connection there. (I don't have a source for that on hand, that's mostly from discussion with relatives who teach.)
They seem fairly orthogonal to me. I guess you could frame the connection like this, though: A teacher acclimated to a group can provide more customized instruction; a slightly older instructing student that is cognitively closer to a learning student can provide more customized instruction. In general I think they provide different functions, though: stability of environment from the looping teacher, and diversity o…
Yes, I think when I've heard about it in the past the different student age groups together were most frequently brought up as the primary cause of benefit.
Where I was wondering if there might be a connection is that a multi-grade classroom also (particularly in small schools) means that a student probably will have the same teacher for multiple years (2-4, in most of the cases I've heard of). I realize that's much less extreme than some of the cases mentioned in the article, but it may still be a secondary source of benefit.
Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years
#130This is a core tenet of Montessori and my kids have experienced this their entire school career (currently in 9th and 6th grade).