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Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years

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Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years

#81

Post by pc86 »

8note wrote: post #68
nickff wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably true; schools are generally run for the benefit and convenience of teachers, not students. The former have a strong union with outsized influence on local elections, whereas the latter don't even vote. The same incentives lead to early school start times which help teachers at the cost of students (particularly teenagers who generally have 'later' circadian rhythms).

My understanding is that schools are run for the convenience of administrators, who want metrics based performance to look at like butts in seats, test scores, cost per student, etc

I have no doubt administrators have a large role to play in this but "test scores" and "cost per student" seem like perfectly fine metrics by which to judge schools, no?

Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years

#82

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

Hmm. I am torn. It has some really amazing potential benefits in theory, but I can absolutely see how it could be an issue if the kid somehow does not 'gel' with the teacher or vice versa. And, naturally, there is a question of pygmalion effect, whether the teacher is.. well.. good enough to maintain that kind of long term relationship.

If I recall my early years correctly, we had one 'main' teacher, but the rest of the subjects were done by other teachers. It maintained some of the benefits, while still exposing the kids to the world outside their class. Come to think of it, one my 'main' teachers really did not like me ( and advised my parents to move me somewhere else ).

Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years

#83

Post by WaitWaitWha »

kbenson wrote: post #71
onemoresoop wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That one student should be able to switch to a different group. If all want to switch then there's a problem with the instructor. Let's look at the opposite end of the spectrum. Student loves an instructor but is needlessly switched to someone new. My point though is that the flexibility to change or stay in the same group should exist.

In this scenario switching is not just getting a different teacher, but an entirely new set of classmates as well, meaning the child is willingly walking away from all their friends and acquaintances they've made possibly over years. I suspect the vast majority of students will choose to stay with the current teacher, even if a very poor fit for them, because of that.

> In this scenario switching is not just getting a different teacher, but an entirely new set of classmates as well, meaning the child is willingly walking away from all their friends and acquaintances they've made possibly over years.

Do they (correct me if I am wrong)? What I have seen in the USA, children indeed would switch classes, but relationships are continued on, especially middle and high schools where free time and extra curricular activities are often in shared space and time across classes.

Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years

#85

Post by MisterBastahrd »

beefman wrote: post #48
onemoresoop wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That one student should be able to switch to a different group. If all want to switch then there's a problem with the instructor. Let's look at the opposite end of the spectrum. Student loves an instructor but is needlessly switched to someone new. My point though is that the flexibility to change or stay in the same group should exist.

In U.S. public schools, this will not be allowed. Schools already do everything they can to discourage and deny teacher switching requests. Why? Because there is a large difference in quality between teachers, and everyone knows which teachers are best, but administrators aren't allowed to fire a teacher with low enrollment because of switching requests, and face class size limits in the case of the good teachers.

I live in the US. My daughter switched classes last year. We transferred to the school system before the start of the school year (a much better one than the previous one which mostly catered to children from lower class families) and as a result, she was behind her classmates for her grade and age group.

The teacher was openly derogatory towards her when she didn't understand a concept and refused to help her during open study periods. The child was flat out depressed when having to do anything with the class. We had enough and had a conference call with the principal, her assistant, and the teacher. Our kid was in a new class the next day.

Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years

#86

Post by Markoff »

considering good teacher is rarity it's pretty bad idea, without looping everyone can experience him at least for short time, with looping some may never met such teacher

in kindergarten I couldn't wait until my kid gets through a year to get better teacher next year, now in primary school we are first four years stuck with oldest teacher in school, we won a "lottery", at least I teach my kids not to take teachers very seriously because with these salaries nobody competent will keep teaching (and don't get me started 95% teachers in school are females, very healthy ratio to have diverse views presented), same goes for telling kids if they won't study good at worst they can always join police force where bottom of the barrel ends

Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years

#87

Post by femiagbabiaka »

nickff wrote: post #28
kayodelycaon wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tried this. Was not allowed to switch because it would cause an uneven class size. At least, that's what I was told the policy was for.

It's probably true; schools are generally run for the benefit and convenience of teachers, not students. The former have a strong union with outsized influence on local elections, whereas the latter don't even vote. The same incentives lead to early school start times which help teachers at the cost of students (particularly teenagers who generally have 'later' circadian rhythms).

Oh wow. You know U.S. labor is in a terrible place when AFT is described as a powerful union with an outsized influence on elections. (It’s exactly the opposite, actually, the only power teachers have left is the power to strike.)

Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years

#88

Post by yamtaddle »

lumost wrote: post #78
yamtaddle wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's probably true; schools are generally run for the benefit and convenience of teachers, not students. This is, emphatically, not even close to true. If someone told you this, they were lying or just had no idea how schools work and were guessing. > early school start times which help teachers at the cost of students A perfect example of how you're veering away from reality with your faulty premise: teachers don'…

like daylight savings, I think everyone feels compelled to pretend there is a reason for this madness. I don't believe there is any purpose in the current school start time, but it's been this way for ages. I'm sure it works for at least some people - but I don't see any reason why student athletes couldn't practice in the morning and spare the rest of us.

The sports-parent and coach lobby in high schools is often one of the stronger interest groups. I've known teachers to advocate for later starts in meetings (again: it really, really isn't due to some powerful cabal of ordinary teachers who just looooove starting school incredibly early) and be told sports are the reason it's not gonna happen (plus having to re-do bus schedules—admin hates working). Also, I can report that the old trope of high school athletes getting grades adjusted or being given way more leeway on disciplinary issues, which one might hope was now only observable on retro 80s movie nights, is still very much a real thing. Most teachers hate that crap, too, but administrators, coaches, and sports-parents all like the preferential treatment for athletes.

Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years

#89

Post by ramesh31 »

atomicUpdate wrote: post #44

“There’s evidence that Black boys are more likely to be suspended for the same behaviors as other children, right?” This feels like a statement that needs some serious backing up, since the implication is that most teachers are racist. Assuming it true, then it’s pretty surprising how we can simultaneously call teachers heroes and racists without much debate.

> This feels like a statement that needs some serious backing up, since the implication is that most teachers are racist. Assuming it true, then it’s pretty surprising how we can simultaneously call teachers heroes and racists without much debate.

The point is that this is an ingrained bias that is fundamental throughout our culture. No teacher says to themself “This kid is black, so therefore I will punish him more harshly because I am a racist”. It is far more sinister, subtle, and unconscious than that.

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