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Who cares about diversity?

fakenous.substack.com

431–440 of 536 posts

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#431
post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I posit that "racists are winning elections" precisely because of the broken race ideology that was meant to combat racism in the first place (not just in admissions and hiring, but all over our discourse). The stuff we do in the name of fighting racism looks like exactly the sort of thing one would do if they wanted to create a thoroughly racist society--get everyone to hyper-identify with their race and create sepa…

I think that's a completely specious perspective and one that is peddled by conservative politicians as propaganda. Being antiracist is not about assigning blame or curing racism with HR policy and certainly not about curing all societal ills. It's about taking small steps to counteract injustice instead of just saying "I'm not racist" and washing your hands. Trying to teach kids accurate history of deplorable things…

> I think that's a completely specious perspective and one that is peddled by conservative politicians as propaganda.

Liberals have been talking about this long before the words “woke” or “CRT” fell upon conservative ears. “Conservatives say this” is merely the latest way to dismiss criticism.

> It's about taking small steps to counteract injustice instead of just saying "I'm not racist" and washing your hands.

The problem is that “counteracting injustice” is naively formulated. Specifically, it often means “reducing disparities between the median people of each race” which practically demands injustice: to make the average white person closer to the average black person, we have to push white people down. And which white people are going to get pushed down? The poorest (which is why we vilify poor, rural whites more so than wealthy coastal elites). Similarly, which black folks are going to get lifted up in order to raise the median? The poor or the rich (whose communities have experienced the largest post-BLM crime surges?)? Moreover, a whole shitton of violence was perpetrated (and rationalized, justified, and excused) in the name of “antiracism”, which is not what I expect from a movement about “counteracting injustice”.

Moreover, “colorblind antiracism” doesn’t imply shrugging—you can advocate for others to be more colorblind. There are approaches that don’t require tokenizing people, and I posit they’ve worked far, far better.

> Trying to teach kids accurate history of deplorable things done by some people's ancestors is just teaching accurate history.

I’m not opposed to teaching accurate history (we covered lots of civil rights stuff when I was in school, but critically I wasn’t taught to feel guilty for having white skin), but (1) that’s not what is happening (lots of historians have significant issues with the 1619 series for example) and (2) the wrongdoers weren’t the ancestors of a lot of people (e.g., lots of white people’s ancestors didn’t immigrate until after the civil war and they didn’t have any major hand in Jim Crow, etc anyway) and (3) there shouldn’t be an implication of guilt based on something your ancestors did anyway and (4) the “antiracist” perspective also seems to take issue with any non-racialized historical lens (or even one in which the US isn’t the absolute worst).

> Out of control name-calling is happening in all quarters but all I'm saying that we are electing racists and we definitely are.

I agree, I just think that’s an effect of so-called antiracism. I don’t think doubling down is going to solve the problem.

> The past president's response to the Charlottesville car attack was incredibly ambivalent and the perpetrator could be accurately described as a nazi.

I won’t argue with you here. This all seems agreeable to me. Let’s make fewer Nazis.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#432

I am absolutely all in for equality, but definitely strongly against equity. When I get HR try to shove a resume down my throat because it ticks all of their boxes despite having none of the boxes to be succesful on the job, that is when I draw the line. I don't care if you're white, black, purple or green, and whether you fuck men, women, all of them or none of them is none of my business. At the end of the day I wa…

(Speaking of the US) Our society has historically created great differences in opportunity. It is unarguable that white males have disproportionately benefited[1][2][3]. Affirmative action / Diversity Initiatives are a blunt instrument that attempts to address these historical inequities. If e.g., a student from a school in a poor area had the same quality of a K-12 education, did not have to worry about tuition (I.e…

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Re: Who cares about diversity?

#433
post #95
post #3

How wide spread is this requirement? I've never heard about it before. >schools are requiring “Diversity Statements” as a condition for new hires Is this like when you do a self performance review and you just throw in a bunch of common phrases / text?

I can’t answer on stats, would also like to know. I’ve read Berkeley requires these for all faculty openings and promotions. Also below is a particularly egregious example from Canada, where it explicitly states white straight men need not apply. https://www.universityaffairs.ca/search-job/?job_id=58317

> Candidates must be from one or more of the following equity-seeking groups to apply: women, persons with disabilities, Indigenous peoples, and racialized groups.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#434
post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a completely specious perspective and one that is peddled by conservative politicians as propaganda. Being antiracist is not about assigning blame or curing racism with HR policy and certainly not about curing all societal ills. It's about taking small steps to counteract injustice instead of just saying "I'm not racist" and washing your hands. Trying to teach kids accurate history of deplorable things…

> I think that's a completely specious perspective and one that is peddled by conservative politicians as propaganda. Liberals have been talking about this long before the words “woke” or “CRT” fell upon conservative ears. “Conservatives say this” is merely the latest way to dismiss criticism. > It's about taking small steps to counteract injustice instead of just saying "I'm not racist" and washing your hands. The p…

I'm pretty sure that everyone now living has ancestors who have done deplorable things at some time in the past. Refraining from all sorts of deplorable things, by and large, is a very recent social innovation. (Steven Pinker is especially clear on this.)

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#435
post #63

For an example of this, see this story about Canadian professor and laser scientist Patanjali Kambhampati who was denied for grants because his avowed commitment to mere non-discrimination and merit-based hiring was deemed insufficient. https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/minority-professor-deni...

I don't see a problem with this, especially if part of the mission of the folks giving the grant is to create opportunities for under-represented people. "If I want to focus on merit, fairness and equality, then you get called out as racist or sexist." I'm still waiting for an example where someone can actually vet people based on merit, fairness and equality without any of their own unconscious biases being a factor…

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Re: Who cares about diversity?

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If e.g., a student from a school in a poor area had the same quality of a K-12 education, did not have to worry about tuition (I.e., make university free again) / living expenses to be able to continue at university as the wealthy kid, affirmative action could have been phased out from higher ed. Wouldn't AA on social-economical status work, which can be more inclusive? Even you only mentioned "poor" and "wealthy",…

I mostly agree with you. I think the concept of race is one of the tools, wielded by the wealthy, to keep the rest of us divided. But, ignoring that we have hundreds of years of government policies that favored whites over non-whites isn't addressing the past wrongs that got us here.

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Re: Who cares about diversity?

#437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you knew someone who didn't like mushrooms, and you saw them enjoy a dish with mushrooms in it without knowing, and then after you told them they said they didn't like it at all actually, wouldn't that seem silly?

No? Sewer rat might, after all, taste like pumpkin pie. In Tokyo, my wife once very much enjoyed a piece of sushi that turned out to be whale. She's not all like, "I guess we eat whale now".

Saying you won't eat more because you disapprove of its origin is fundamentally different from changing you assessment after the fact of whether you "liked" it.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#438

So here's where I'm stuck: On the one hand I totally understand the objections to categorizing people based on things that won't affect their job performance per se -- skin color, gender, who they are attracted to, etc. But on the other hand, those people have been systematically discriminated against, well, forever. So the question is, where should the fix be applied? If the only people who have the skills to do the…

> But on the other hand, those people have been systematically discriminated against, well, forever. The solution is not to systematically discriminate in another direction, forever. In addition, you risk political blowback. People who are discriminated against get unhappy, and you have abandoned the high moral ground that racial discrimination is always a bad thing, and you end up in a worse situation than you start…

> In addition, you risk political blowback. People who are discriminated against get unhappy

Something related that tends to be forgotten, the temporal aspect: People just entering the workforce who have only ever been on the wrong end of affirmative action. For them, there is no "balance" or "correction" going on, they're just plain being discriminated against.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#439
post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a completely specious perspective and one that is peddled by conservative politicians as propaganda. Being antiracist is not about assigning blame or curing racism with HR policy and certainly not about curing all societal ills. It's about taking small steps to counteract injustice instead of just saying "I'm not racist" and washing your hands. Trying to teach kids accurate history of deplorable things…

> I think that's a completely specious perspective and one that is peddled by conservative politicians as propaganda. Liberals have been talking about this long before the words “woke” or “CRT” fell upon conservative ears. “Conservatives say this” is merely the latest way to dismiss criticism. > It's about taking small steps to counteract injustice instead of just saying "I'm not racist" and washing your hands. The p…

I said "conservative politicians" not "conservatives". The loudest crazies on both side don't generally represent the mainstream, but conservative politicians are actively appealing to the crazies. Absolutely nobody is being taught in schools to feel guilty for being white. That's an outright lie concocted by conservative politicians. Your perspectives of the liberal view is based on the worst caricature of liberal views you might find in the depths of Twitter while your perspective on the conservative view is based on the narrowest reading of stated policy. The 1619 Project was immaculately researched whole mainstream conservatives can't even figure out what happened in 2020.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think that's a completely specious perspective and one that is peddled by conservative politicians as propaganda. Liberals have been talking about this long before the words “woke” or “CRT” fell upon conservative ears. “Conservatives say this” is merely the latest way to dismiss criticism. > It's about taking small steps to counteract injustice instead of just saying "I'm not racist" and washing your hands. The p…

I'm pretty sure that everyone now living has ancestors who have done deplorable things at some time in the past. Refraining from all sorts of deplorable things, by and large, is a very recent social innovation. (Steven Pinker is especially clear on this.)

Agreed. Not only that, but there’s also a debate among historians about “presentism”—judging the past by present standards rather than by the standards of the time. For example, most (so-called) antiracists are presentists, which is why they advocate for tearing down statues of Lincoln and the like—people who were very progressive for their day, but who fell short of the standards of today (as though the people who are antiracist today would be as strident as they are if they grew up in the culture of Lincoln’s time).
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