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Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

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Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#141

Post by prvc »

dijit wrote: post #9

They aren’t being arrested for being anti-monarchy though. They are being arrested for being rude about it. Was the fella on radio 4 who stated to the entire nation that ‘King Charles and his family should be put in a council house and that the Monarchy should be abolished’ arrested? No. If you are going to attend a funeral, any funeral, be it the Queen’s or anyone else’s and hurl abuse or hold up signs with obscenit…

Worth noting that currently, most UK arrests over "offense-giving" (which are increasingly common) are done on behalf of precisely those grievance-based identity groups which anti-monarchists support.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#142

Post by googlryas »

rconti wrote: post #130
googlryas wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do that in the UK too, just not during a funeral procession. The US has laws against protesting at the funerals of Armed Service members. If you really want to rage against something, why not the thing from your own society, instead of the thing from some other society?

Citation? I've never heard this before. I'm aware of the westboro baptist protesting at funerals of gay people or other "sinners" they don't like; they're wholly awful people. I didn't realize it was illegal to protest at a servicemember's funeral, though. Does this come out of the Vietnam war?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1388

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#143

Post by hanniabu »

lliamander wrote: post #108
Havoc wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They are being arrested for being rude about it. Which is substantially worse. Rudeness is so subjective and context sensitive that it really shouldn't form the basis for arrests

It may not be good that people are being arrested for rudeness, but it is definitely better than them being arrested for their political views.

How do toy know that's not the real reason and this isn't the excuse?

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#144

Post by maxbond »

bawolff wrote: post #95
alasdair_ wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disrupting a funeral is one thing. Disrupting a funeral the public is forced to pay millions of pounds for, while other members of said public can't afford food and electricity, is a completely different matter.

I don't think that it is. The rich and powerful are still real people with real grief. I'm not opposed to people protesting parliment or whatever, but let the mourners mourn in peace.

If this were some kind of private function I'd agree with you. But a large, public funeral for a monarch is inherently a political event. It's part of the process of moving from one monarch to the next, which is exactly what the protestors object to, and is literally politics. It is absolutely fair game to protest.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#145

Post by tialaramex »

haunter wrote: post #45
AndyMcConachie wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh ok. Does that mean if we ask nicely we can dissolve the monarchy?

I mean yes? Elect MPs, vote for parties that support the republic movement for a starter. It doesn't really help when all the mainstream parties in the Westminster are royalists.

I would guess Parliamentarians are likely to have read up a bit and discovered why Parliament is sovereign. The English literally tried not having a monarch, they executed Charles I for treason. This concretely answers any residual question, the Parliament can execute the King, so Parliament is sovereign. Turns out the alternative wasn't better. "Lord Protector" Cromwell (ie a dictator) wasn't an improvement over a King. After Cromwell died, the restored Parliament invited Charles II to become King.

People want a figurehead. If you elect the figurehead they have political power (because of democratic legitimacy) and that's bad. Monarchy is better for this purpose.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#147

Post by wutbrodo »

deskamess wrote: post #124
bawolff wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? the US is a weird, barely functioning, democracy. Why would anyone want to emulate it?

What makes it weird? Why is it barely functioning?

I think you're just seeing an example of the raging inferiority complex that many members of the rest of the West exhibit towards the US. There's a noticeable cultural difference along certain axes, with both significant downsides and significant upsides for both sides of the cultural divide. But there are many out there who aren't cognitively capable of processing the breathtaking nuance of global cultural differences, and unsurprisingly they end up with a reductive view of the culture they don't understand (same as it ever was).

My personal experience of backpacking around the world was replete with lectures from 25-year-old European women about the US's issues. They were of such poor quality that I mostly just smiled and shrugged it off, knowing that it'd be a waste of my vacation to try and explain to them the nuances of cultural difference. But I had the delightful catharsis of schooling a particularly-obnoxious British girl on her country's role as the primary contender for history's greatest supervillain (unsurprisingly, her grasp of history and politics was.... poor).

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#148

Post by munk-a »

bjourne wrote: post #114
dijit wrote: post #9

They aren’t being arrested for being anti-monarchy though. They are being arrested for being rude about it. Was the fella on radio 4 who stated to the entire nation that ‘King Charles and his family should be put in a council house and that the Monarchy should be abolished’ arrested? No. If you are going to attend a funeral, any funeral, be it the Queen’s or anyone else’s and hurl abuse or hold up signs with obscenit…

The queen was a public figure whose lavish livelihood were paid for by British tax-payers. So it seems to me that British people should have the right to celebrate her death in any way they please. Curtailing people's freedom of speech by misusing public order laws (the queen's funeral is not comparable to any normal funeral) is curtailing freedom of speech.

This is actually an incredibly false point. The royal family (if treated like anonymous land-owners) would cause a sudden and drastic drop in fundraising within the UK. Assuming their property wasn't seized having them retain their current station is actually a net positive to the British tax-payers - they lose far more potential income each year in free land leases and charitable donations (known collectively as the Crown Estate) to the state then they receive in benefits (known as the Sovereign Grant). This arrangement is financially detrimental to the royal family in terms of absolute value.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#149

Post by bendbro »

nimbius wrote: post #110
dijit wrote: post #9

They aren’t being arrested for being anti-monarchy though. They are being arrested for being rude about it. Was the fella on radio 4 who stated to the entire nation that ‘King Charles and his family should be put in a council house and that the Monarchy should be abolished’ arrested? No. If you are going to attend a funeral, any funeral, be it the Queen’s or anyone else’s and hurl abuse or hold up signs with obscenit…

i see quite a few confusing or ill spirited comments so I suppose most of this thread is from a distinctly United States American perspective. Its worth kindly pointing out the UK has its own law and order, much of which applies to your character and conduct in the public sphere. Conversely Whilst considered in egregiously poor taste, burlish crass and offensive protests are generally permitted in the USA provided th…

No post body was provided.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#150

Post by dTal »

dijit wrote: post #12
closewith wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They aren’t being arrested for being anti-monarchy though. > They are being arrested for being rude about it. Got it. Arrested for poor taste. Hard to see the justification for that in a democracy?

You will be arrested for hurling obscenities at mourners regardless of who the dead person is. People were arrested at Margaret Thatchers funeral for the same thing. It’s not rocket science. You’re not allowed to do that.

You will also be arrested for shouting "who elected him" at the new King's proclamation ceremony apparently.

These tired strawmen need to stop. Anti-royalists are being arrested for expressing anti-royal views in inconvenient places, not "hurling obscenities at a funeral".

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