Live data from Hacker News

John C. Mather: “There is no first moment of time” (2017)

edge.org

21–30 of 84 posts

Re: John C. Mather: “There is no first moment of time” (2017)

#21
”The observable universe was once compressed into a volume the size of a golf ball, but that golf ball was only a tiny piece of a universe that was infinite even then.”

What a helpful way of thinking about it. I’m surprised I’ve never heard this before. Mind expanding, no pun intended.

Re: John C. Mather: “There is no first moment of time” (2017)

#23
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Order of Time by Carlo Rovelli is accessible to all (no math)

On a related topic, "The magic furnace" delves into the origin of the elements.

This looks pretty cool, thanks

Re: John C. Mather: “There is no first moment of time” (2017)

#24

Interesting stuff, can someone recommend a good book that deals more into this subject? Preferably a book that’s entertaining to read rather than engrossed in mathematics

The Order of Time by Carlo Rovelli is accessible to all (no math)

I already have this one on audiobook, thanks

Re: John C. Mather: “There is no first moment of time” (2017)

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this is kind of a laughable position in the article. I don’t mean the conclusion, which might be right, but the method. The laws of physics as we know them are just reflections of … nothing more than what we know. The fact that we have no account of what came before the big bang is not evidence of anything except that we don’t know, especially when a very plausible theory is that what came before is totally diff…

Didn't Gödel prove that you can't prove a theory with its' own ruleset? In physics maths always go haywire durnig phase changes, as gas laws don't apply to liquids, and such.

No, he proved that under existing axiomatic systems, there are some statements which cannot be proven to be true axiomatically, even though they are true; such axiomatic systems are, in his terminology, incomplete. A subtle but important difference.

Re: John C. Mather: “There is no first moment of time” (2017)

#26

Interesting stuff, can someone recommend a good book that deals more into this subject? Preferably a book that’s entertaining to read rather than engrossed in mathematics

You might enjoy Time Reborn[1] by Lee Smolin or About Time[2] by Paul Davies. Note that the latter book is fairly old now (from 1996 or so) and I'm not sure how well it holds up now.

[1]: https://www.amazon.com/Time-Reborn-Lee-Smolin/dp/0544245598

[2]: https://www.amazon.com/About-Time-Einsteins-Unfinished-Revol...

Re: John C. Mather: “There is no first moment of time” (2017)

#28

> even though there’s no first moment of time, we can still measure the age. This seems to be a contradiction? The time that's passed since some kind of transformation, but not the age? What is the age of something that has no beginning?

I'm a perpetual noob at this topic, so might be completely wrong, but: what I vaguely got from Hawking's books is that both black holes and the before-bang universe have matter in some kind of quark soup, in which our conceptions of space and time just don't exist. Since our spacetime depends on the non-soup layout of matter, the spacetime can be said to exist only with the universe after the bang (and until the crunch, if it comes). That's the age of the universe that we can reason about.

Curiously, Hawking still relates the hypotheses that (very roughly) calculate some kind of time that it would take for the soup to form into the proper universe—via Hilbert's spaces of configurations. I.e. these theories somehow count possible arrangements of matter in the soup, in the absence of space, and its movements from one arrangement to another, in the absence of time. That confuses me to this day.

Re: John C. Mather: “There is no first moment of time” (2017)

#29
post #3

> There’s another way in which the giant firecracker idea misleads us, because even scientists often talk about the “universe springing into existence.” Well, it didn’t, as far as we can tell. The opposite is true. There is no first moment of time, just as there is no smallest positive number. In physics we have equations and laws of nature that describe how one situation changes into another, but we have no equation…

Yeah this is kind of a laughable position in the article. I don’t mean the conclusion, which might be right, but the method. The laws of physics as we know them are just reflections of … nothing more than what we know. The fact that we have no account of what came before the big bang is not evidence of anything except that we don’t know, especially when a very plausible theory is that what came before is totally diff…

If there is such a thing as bad or good philosophy...

Re: John C. Mather: “There is no first moment of time” (2017)

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't Gödel prove that you can't prove a theory with its' own ruleset? In physics maths always go haywire durnig phase changes, as gas laws don't apply to liquids, and such.

No, he proved that under existing axiomatic systems, there are some statements which cannot be proven to be true axiomatically, even though they are true; such axiomatic systems are, in his terminology, incomplete. A subtle but important difference.

One thing I've always wondered is if there's any _interesting_ statements that can't be proved or if they're all kind of self-referential nonsense statements.
Post reply on HN