Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The people in positions of power to limit speech are often wrong. But they're always right about when to limit physical activity (violence etc.)? It's just as conceivable that we'd be better off as a society if certain forms of physical violence by private citizens weren't illegal vs certain actions of "verbal" activity (publishing child pornography, or classified military secrets) being permissible by law.
I'd argue this is more about defaults. Speech defaults to free and is well protected with extremely rare/narrow exceptions, violence defaults to controlled. Some forms of violence of private citizens are not illegal (self-defense), but I think we're better off in a society where violence is default illegal. Speech and violence are pretty different things.
Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)
481–490 of 506 posts
Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)
#482Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not every measure follows a bell curve. The reason intelligence is seen as following a bell curve is at least partially that intelligence tests are designed with the assumption that it does - so every test that is accepted suggests that it's the case. Personally I think it's worthwhile to observe that what we call "intelligence" is also generally a self-driven and self-satisfying demonstration of socially-sourced mea…
> to feel confident that we know much about 'intelligence' at all We both know smart people among our acquaintances. We can tell just by talking with them. Everything else about humans follows a bell curve, why should intelligence be any different?
If your smart friend was moved to the other group of people
would he still be smart?
Probably yes, probably not.
Smartness feels relative and contextual, but is this right approach to measure it? probably not
Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)
#483Earlier quoted context omitted.
There has to be some reason behind protesting or we end up wasting resources arresting everyone and trying to fight over who gets to protest in prime space at prime time. It’s better for everyone if we’re civilized about it.
So the French should have refrained from storming the Bastille in 1789 and later executing the king, and instead should have brought the issues with liberty, equality and fraternity to Louis XVI's and the clergy's attention in a non-aggressive tone?
It’s pretty cruel and brutal to me but it gets them what they want I guess.
The real question is, in a modern society, where freedom of speech exists, how disruptive should protests be allowed to be?
I don’t know the answer myself but I think some limits may be required.
Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)
#484Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't believe that several hundred thousand people migrate out of the US every year. Such would certainly make the news. Yes, there are ex pats, but not many. What would you say the number of people dying in factory fires were? Since life expectancy went steadily up during the 19th century, it doesn't seem like factory fires had a worse effect than the positive effect of better nutrition, sanitation, housing, etc.…
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I don’t think this is the correct way to look at it. That may seem harsh but humans certainly never have nor ever will think that way. For example, what is the risk of death associated with climbing up the tree to get the apple. How much are people willing to pay to buy a safer car? There will always be a tail risk. Mitigating the risk will eventually not be worth the cost, either it terms of resources or human years spent on reducing the risk. A much more recent salient example is that most societies on earth have decided that the risk from dying from COVID is worth it to continue living a normal life. If we applied your standard, we should never leave our house and do anything constituting a normal life.
Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)
#485Earlier quoted context omitted.
So the French should have refrained from storming the Bastille in 1789 and later executing the king, and instead should have brought the issues with liberty, equality and fraternity to Louis XVI's and the clergy's attention in a non-aggressive tone?
Where do you stand on French farmers blocking ports by burning truck loads of sheep and cattle alive to stop rival imports? It’s pretty cruel and brutal to me but it gets them what they want I guess. The real question is, in a modern society, where freedom of speech exists, how disruptive should protests be allowed to be? I don’t know the answer myself but I think some limits may be required.
Sure, that's cruel. Unlike Louis XVI, the sheep and cows were not the ones who were accountable for a deeply unfair status quo.
> The real question is, in a modern society, where freedom of speech exists, how disruptive should protests be allowed to be?
Freedom of speech alone does not guarantee fairness.
> I don’t know the answer myself but I think some limits may be required.
What are the guarantees that legislative or executive power over such limits does not get abused for profit or ideology?
Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)
#486Earlier quoted context omitted.
So what would you do if you found out your child's biology teacher was speaking to them about intelligent design?
They would get fired with cause since they aren't doing their job properly.
Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)
#487Earlier quoted context omitted.
See? You are the answer to Who is calling for people to be arrested for what they say? Or to be blocked from being able to say it out loud? I said a significant fraction of the HN user base shares your opinion and user D23 said he didn't understand how anyone could think that was true. Well, Q.E.D.
If speech is provably false and part of a pattern of disinformation designed to stir up hate and violence why is it a problem to police it? See the disinfo about jewish people followed thereafter by the mass murder of jewish people.
My opinion on that is irrelevant because that isn't the topic of discussion. This comment chain regards d23's disagreement with my assertion that a significant fraction of the HN user base (like you) believe hate speech should be illegal. I'm not saying you're right or wrong; I'm just saying you exist on this website.
Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)
#488Earlier quoted context omitted.
I always notice that "hate speech" is how people want it defined. For example, I personally think "toxic masculinity," "mansplaining," "patriarchy," showing men as stupid foolish and incapable in movies and tv shows, and all the rest of the anti-male bashing is hate speech. However, I'm shouted down every time I say one word about this on any online forums. That's because the matriarchy that we live in does not allow…
Making up your own definitions isn't how it works. And mockery is not hate speech. And I'm not shouting either.
Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)
#489Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't believe that several hundred thousand people migrate out of the US every year. Such would certainly make the news. Yes, there are ex pats, but not many. What would you say the number of people dying in factory fires were? Since life expectancy went steadily up during the 19th century, it doesn't seem like factory fires had a worse effect than the positive effect of better nutrition, sanitation, housing, etc.…
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> You accept forced labor as part of the “free market”
Only in your imagination.
> some acceptable level of people dying in fires locked in factories at work
You were comparing the risk of that against the risk of a short life from malnutrition.
> enslaved
Amazon's workers are not enslaved.
Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)
#490Earlier quoted context omitted.
Quoted post unavailable.
>For example the FBI told social media companies the the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation They didn't, they only gave a general warning to watch out for misinformation[1]. Facebook censored the Hunter Biden laptop story on their own volition. Zuckerberg mentioned FBI in that Rogan interview to muddy the waters and deflect responsibility. He didn't actually say that FBI ordered them to do anything. [1] -…